Can a Yankee find Retirement Happiness in the South?
Category: Best Retirement Towns and States
Note: We now have Part 2 of this series, which summarizes the many (over 248) comments made to this article. Obviously, we struck a nerve here!
Nov. 9, 2010 — You might be the kind of person who wants to retire somewhere warm. You’ve identified some states where the climate is a lot better than where you are now, and where outdoor recreation is possible12 months of the year. You’ve also done your research and have chosen a state that that is tax-friendly. Chances are, the states that meet those criteria are in the South. And that probably gives rise to other questions.
Even if you have never spent any significant time in the South, you probably have an image of what life might be like be like there. Without the benefit of experience, however, that image is probably off the mark. In this article we will attempt to answer some questions to help you become better informed: Will the people in your new community be friendly? Will you, a Yankee, fit into the social and cultural ecosystem of your new southern home? Will you be able to contribute your time and talents to your new community in the way you expect to? Will you be comfortable with the political situation and attitudes? And how about the food?
Our apologies in advance if this article offends anyone. The opinions given here are personal, undoubtedly biased by a native northeasterner who has only spent a little more than 2 years of his life in the South. Our attempt to answer the question obviously reflects a northern point of view. The corollary to this question is clear too: a southerner moving to the north should also be concerned about experiencing social and cultural issues in their new adopted region.
Regional Differences Magnified –Fairly or not
Sue Cerulean, a transplanted New Jersey native who has spent her adult life in north Florida, makes a great point about the kind of differences a Yankee will find in the South. She observes that… “the differences a northern transplant is likely to notice in the South are more of a rural vs. urban issue than they are northern vs. southern”. We agree, and would add that socioeconomic status differences also tend to stand out – whether you are in the north or the south.
Sure, there are some physical differences. When you stray from the Interstate the landscape features piney woods and red clay soil. When it comes to differences between people, the most obvious clue comes when we open our mouths. Different accents provide an obvious reminder of regional identity, which can create a barrier to mutual understanding and trust. The fact that newcomers stand apart from locals only compounds the social and cultural differences. Human groups usually prefer socializing with their own kind – in Savannah or Saint Louis – which explains why people who move to a new town might feel unwelcome.
What do you bring to the party?
Part of a successful transition to any new town has to start with you. What are you expecting in your new community, and what are you bringing to the party? If you want to be part of the community and are willing to get involved in working or volunteer activities, chances are you will soon feel a part of things. But if you want to do your own thing, you might feel like an outsider. Likewise, if you appreciate new cultural experiences, your transition will be easier no matter where you retire. On the other hand if you prefer to socialize with the kind of people you already know, then you should probably investigate an active adult community and stay away from living in a town or city.
Politics and Religion. Chances are your new southern home might be in a state that is more conservative than where you are now. In the 2010 mid-term election we just saw that the new South is trending more Republican among white voters, and Democratic among African-Americans. In small towns you will probably find that attitudes toward homosexuality might be less welcoming in the South. The southern brand of religion is a generally bit more conservative than its northern counterpart, although that is certainly not universally true.
Food. The good news is that Southern cooking is usually at a pretty high level. The typical small town restaurant puts a hearty meal on the table. With plenty of butter and bacon as ingredients, it might not always be the healthiest, but it will be tasty. Barbecue, fried chicken and gravy, and hush puppies are foods your editor can’t wait to experience South of the Mason-Dixon Line. And that is not to say that there aren’t great restaurants offering every kind of cuisine.
Deep South vs. Mid-South. In our opinion certain states are more “Southern” than others. Alabama, South Carolina, Mississippi, and Georgia have a stronger Southern culture and feel, with exceptions guaranteed within those states. The houses don’t look the same, as bungalows and ranch homes replace salt boxes and northern frame styles. Like small towns in other areas of the country, zoning laws are not as restrictive as in affluent northeastern towns. Trash along the highways does seem to be a Southern scourge. Statues of Confederate war heroes on the town “square” (the “green” to many Yankees) will remind you of where you are. In the Deep South the differences are more extreme because the culture is stronger.
The Carolinas. Particularly near the coasts and in the larger cities, retirement in the Carolinas may offer more of a neutral living experience. A steady stream of transplants from across the country contributes to that. For a sophisticated, intellectually active environment, you might consider the dynamic Research Triangle area of Raleigh-Durham. Even the most jaded New Yorker could find adequate stimulation there. In popular retirement towns like Mt. Airy, Asheville, Greenville (either SC or NC), or Pinehurst, the person you bump into at the Piggly Wiggly is just as likely to be from Harrisburg as a town in North Carolina. In parts of the Carolinas without a heritage of outside immigration, however, you might be in for a cultural jolt. The locals are undoubtedly friendly, but it might take them awhile to get used to your Yankee ways – and vice versa!
Mid-Southern. Mid-Southern states like Tennessee and Kentucky can offer a mixed experience for retiring northerners. Nashville, Chattanooga, or Knoxville offer a pleasant small city experience, with tons of culture and a college town environment. Retiring to an area like Paris, TN, which attracts retirees from a wide area, will tend to minimize other differences. In a small town with few retirees coming in from other states, you might not feel at home for a long time – unless you make the effort to join in on community activities.
Florida. The Sunshine State is, for the most part, a cultural melting pot. Fort Myers, for example, is the quintessential American suburb, with sprawl, busy highways, and big box stores by the gross. Living there requires almost no cultural adjustment, no matter what part of the country you are coming from. Old Florida, to be found more in the western and central parts of the state, still retains some of its old Southern charm and differences. Personally, we find this charm very appealing – harkening back to another, kinder and slower era. But could we as a Yankee enjoy living in a regular neighborhood in a small town like Chiefland – probably not. But in a southern-looking neighborhood in cosmopolitan Tallahassee, definitely.
Cities in the South: The South has its fair share of bustling cities like Atlanta, Birmingham, New Orleans, Jacksonville, Tampa, Nashville, and Charlotte. There are mid-sized cities like the college towns of Athens, GA and Tallahassee, FL. Living in one of those cities offers an experience not much different than living in Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Chicago – or Ann Arbor, MI. Either way you will be living in a city where many of the residents are from somewhere else and the cultural opportunities ample.
Where You Live – Active Adult Community vs. In-Town
The great leveler in regional differences is the active adult community or other big development. Home builders like Pulte, Del Webb, Centex, Toll Brothers, Jensen, Daniel Homes, and others have been on a building boom from New Bern to Bluffton to Huntsville and parts beyond. Thanks to the south’s attractive climate, favorable tax structure, and plentiful and cheap land, retirees from all parts of the country and Canada are moving south to these new communities. Some are near metropolitan areas, such as the National Village at Grand National is to Birmingham or Fairhope is to Mobile. Others are further afield, built near recreational areas like Lake Keowee or Amelia Island. Even more are in the hinterlands, far from anything, or near a very small town.
Living in one of these developments tends to diminish and soften the regional differences you might expect to see by moving to the South. That’s because you will be living in a self-contained environment which you rarely leave. Sure you will go to town for most shopping and medical needs, but your social infrastructure will mostly be centered within the active community. So, even if the small towns around your enclave seem alien – you only have to drive by this world, not have it as an everyday experience.
There is the South in your mind… but there are really many Souths
There are indeed many different kinds of environments in the South. With so much diversity anyone from the north should be able find a compatible location for a happy retirement in the South. And for those who choose to live in an active adult community or development, as opposed to residing within a town or city, adjusting to living in the South is usually almost not an issue.
Recommendations to consider
If you are concerned about your ability to be a happy Yankee in a southern world, consider these recommendations and questions:
– Choose a city rather than a small town
– Go for a college town or community that is known for attracting retirees from all over the South
– Don’t move anywhere without staying in that community for an extended period of time (visit first, then rent)
– Select an active adult community if you want to live with people like yourself
– If you want to live in a town or city, make an extra effort to join in the community
– If a development that is far from a major town or resort, take that remoteness into consideration
– No matter where you move, plan to make social connections as soon as you arrive – visit churches and join one, join a club (perhaps one you are already affiliated with like the Rotary), take up a sport, take a class, be open to new people, friendships, and experiences.
– Be open-minded about your new community – imagine what a stranger might experience by moving to the town where you live now
What do you think? What have your experiences been if you have either retired in the South, or explored different communities there? Please give everyone on this site the benefit of your experience.
For further reference:
Part 2: Can A Northerner Find Happiness in the South
Use the Retirement Ranger at Topretirements to help you find compatible towns and communities. Advanced Search is another convenient tool to to help expand your horizons.
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Comments on "Can a Yankee find Retirement Happiness in the South?"
KL Soper says:
I wish I had had this website about four years ago. Moved to a small town in SC (23 miles from Myrtle Beach) from No Virginia and it has been the worst decision of my life - people are NOT friendly; am not religious so church was not an option; tried to volunteer but nobody responded to the "forms" I was requested to fill out; people have turned their back to me when they are speaking to me; was unable to find a p/t job when it was discovered I was from the North and I could just go on FOREVER!! I've given it four years - way too much time and now must put my house on the mkt (at a tremendous loss) and figure out where to go - so please keep supply these wonderful insights!!! I need all the help I can get - SORRY I MOVED!!!! This particular article is right on the money!!!
KL Soper says:
A couple of additional comments: first - the article is correct - garbage is all over the roadsides - so much for the $1000 fine sign for this offense and second, be prepared for the TOTAL LACK OF RESPECT AND CARE that is paid toward animals - people literally throw them away - they, too, are just considered garbage down here - so be prepared to lower you standards or just don't come - which is what I should have done if I'd known all of this, but this was to be my retirement haven and I fell in love with my home - now I must give that up and my dream.
Margaret Fallon says:
An excellent article. Your checklist of recommendations is spot on. I lived in New York up until 2008 when we moved to Sun City Hilton Head in Bluffton SC. Talk about culture shock. It did take a while to get used to, but what a wonderful and exciting experience. Your experience and retirement will be what you make of it. Good Luck!
Barbara T. says:
I recently spent 24 days traveling all about the southeastern coastal states in an effort to identify where I might like to relocate/retire. At this point I was trying to get a feel for regions more so than specific towns. I concur with the article and its findings. However, having lived in a rural town of the north during my youth, I didn't find the cultural shock so unexpected. I think rural to rural and urban to urban will be fairly level playing fields. More pronounced to me was their laid back manner, less hyper, lesser concern with time constraints. Tomorrow will be quick enough ... I look forward to shedding my self imposed stressors and incorporating that mode of lifestyle (and it costs nothing!). Thank you for this article. I look forward to more.
Bill S. says:
Sorry to read Mr. Soper's comments. I've lived in the South all my life, and I suspect what he found in a very small town in Sc is largely true. I also think he made a poor decision to move to such a location. This article would have been helpful for him 23 years ago. I do believe other can report better experiences. The South is hardly a monolithic area, as this article makes clear. I would enjoy an article aimed at those of us who will be retiring in New England in another year after having lived South all my 70 years. What can I expect to find in Connecticut, Mass or Vermont?
Glenn says:
@ Bill S:
Bill, I'm not a NE native but have spent some time there (and in the South) and some of these comments may be useful to you. As you mentioned with respect to the South, NE is also not a monolith. (Where is, huh?) But, overall, I think NE is a bit more "civilized" than other regions (including the mid-Atlantic, where I hail from). Of course, Southern manners are lacking but, then, so are much of the prejudices and narrow-mindedness(and I'm not just talking racial prejudices). Taxes are higher of course but so are services. My wife and I had considered Vermont as a possible retirement destination after skiing there for many years and loving the Vermont vibe. But spending an entire winter in NE is another experience and one you have to experience to believe. Come Spring, you might decide to point your nose to the 180 degree mark and skeedaddle (sp?). But Vermont is very much of a piece (Burlington, Montepelier, etc., notwithstanding) whereas there is great variation in CT and MA. The I95 corridor is part of the great eastern megalopolis, of course, and can be as unplatable as any small town in SC, albeit for different reasons. But, even there, there are some terrific communities. Western MA and NW CT have more of the Vermont flavor (although Vermonters would deny this, I think). Let me know if you any specific questions and I'll try to tackle them unless we get a real New Englander to chime in. P.S. Lest I've come across as too critical of the South, both Ashville and Charlottesville are on our short list.
Artie says:
After living in New York and specifically on Long Island our entire lives (over 55 years), we are recent transplants to the Raleigh Durham area (Cary,NC). Rather than rent initially as we had initially considered, we decided we didn't want the hassle and expense of two moves. Consequently,we moved into a re-sale within the Del Webb/Pulte "active adult" community called the "Carolina Preserve." We especially are enjoying the weather and the availability of as much or as little activity as we want to get involved in. This is an added benefit of being in this kind of community, althuogh they are not for everyone. Irrespective of the community, the "Triangle" area consisting of the aforementioned towns (cities) along with the addition of Chapel Hill offers a lot of varied activities. In addition to all the colleges and universitis down here, there are also opportunities to find work in the area with Research Trinagle Park being the economic driver in the region. Although much less congested than Long Island, this is hardly the southern "boonies." Cary (aka "Containment Area for Relocated Yankees") didn't earn this acronym for nothing, as I'm finding most of the people in our community to be from the Northeast. So far, after moving in August, things are just fine and we are enjoying our new environment and exploring the area. We don't feel that we are missing that much up north except perhaps more traffic and congestion, higher costs, especially the excessive real estate taxes and lousy weather for much of the year. We seem to have plenty of the good stuff down here including all kinds of entertainment (e.g.movie theaters, live theater, professional and college sports, concerts) along with abundant shopping and very good to great dining. It's a very pretty area with all the big trees and forested areas and lakes. We have the both the mountains and the coast within reasonable traveling distance and you can still make it back to visit friends and family in NY (for example) in one day's drive. The area has also been referred to as "trees, tees, and PhD's. Although an over-simplification, this discription is not off the mark.
mrgoodwx says:
I enjoyed the assessment and believe the author made some good suggestions. I grew up in central Mississippi, but moved to the Rocky Mountain states nearly 25 years ago. I'm retired in New Mexico. My wife and I occasionally visit old friends in Mississippi (mainly high school reunions), and we always have a great time. Yet, we also feel as if we are in a time warp when we go back to Mississippi. The old friends are strongly tied to the narrow visions we held as children. They seem very happy with who they are, and that' great. But, it's always a reminder that we wouldn't fit in. We're always amazed at the depth of their beliefs in one religion, one political party. Unlike where we have been for nearly 25 years, too many people in many communities of the South (smaller towns) want to know what religion you are, who your family is.
Yet, there are communities in the South with transplants from all over, and I believe those communities are far more accepting of people with different views, different religions, different ideas. I also think people from the North have a much greater chance of fitting into those communities and being happy.
Another consideration has to do with the climate. I think my wife and I would struggle with the heat and humidity that we knew as the norm when we were kids. Generally, the farther one goes into the deep south, the longer period of the year one will experience with no breaks from the oppressive heat and humidity.
Peter F. Lydens says:
I found while living in various places in North Carolina, that if one offers their time and talents to the community, while at the same time not constantly telling people about how it was done in the community one moved from,that one will find a niche in the community.
I now live in Mt. Airy, NC (11,000 Est. Pop),a community that welcomes retirees and persons seeking a better quality of life style for the experience and talents they bring to the community. Mt. Airy has all the facilities and services that make life enjoyable, as well as a variety of quality education opportunities, and a surprisingly large cultural and entertainment offering. A caring and friendly attitude towards newcomers, as well as long time residents, makes the community especially attractive for retirement.
H E Flaherty says:
We moved from Rhode Island to the Chattanooga, TN area about 4 years ago as a work transfer. There were a lot of things to consider and we have tried to like it but we will certainly not retire here. Cannot wait to go back north! KL Soper is right, attitudes toward education, civic pride, football, animals, recycling and the fact that "its all good" just are not the same as what we've been used to. That said, we have made some friends (mostly others from northern states - some of whom have moved back) and we have tried to make it home.
There are some bright spots. I would like to recommend Asheville, NC, Wilmington, NC and Athens, GA as some places to consider. With the university in Athens, there are always lots of people from other parts of the country as well as other parts of the world not to mention all the programs open to the public on the campus. Wilmington is very clean and genteel and I have always felt comfortable there. Asheville has a LOT of creative energy and they are very aware of the outside world. Do yourselves a favor and spend at least one extended vacation in the south BEFORE you buy!
says:
Wow. This is an interesting article and very thoughtful comments. I am a 25 year resident of Connecticut but I have lived in the Midwest, West and South for periods of a few years during my life. I grew up in Illinois, moved to South Carolina in my early twenties and lived in Washington State in my thirties. I’m sure there are things that change with time but some things remain fairly constant. I have also had the opportunity to travel and visit relatives in the Midwest, West, Southwest and Florida over the years. As I think about retirement the issue of fitting in has actually been at the top of my list. I will tell you that my impressions upon moving to Connecticut, where I have no family, were that the majority of people are ‘from here’ or New England with family near by. This can be challenging for a newcomer. I also found that as a ‘society’ people seemed less friendly and brusquer than I experienced in the Midwest. But when I would meet people one-on-one this did not seem the case.
I do believe that many of the differences noted in this article are real and as a naïve 20 something who hadn’t even lived in New England yet, I noticed these cultural differences quite clearly. I do think, as has been noted that you will find differences, as anywhere, between rural settings and large cities. This is the same way in Illinois. I don’t think the ‘big city’ New Englanders would feel that much out of place in Chicago for example. I also think that Florida is really a different environment because of the diversity that has come from outside of Florida, both with retirees and immigrants. It is of course dangerous to generalize about any State but when looking at the South I think this is particularly true about Florida.
There are many, many things to say but regardless of where you are thinking of going it is a great idea to go and stay for a while. And from a climate perspective be sure that part of that time is during the ‘worst’ time of the year. This brings up a point I think people should ponder. If you are thinking of moving to a warmer climate keep in mind that in some of these places the summers can be brutal. You may dream of escaping the winter in New England now but you may be dreaming of escaping the summer in another area later.
Happy dreaming.
Betsy says:
We moved from MD to Wake Forest NC in '96, then to ATL in '98 due to a job
transfer, then back again, north of Wake Forest in '06. It has NEVER felt like home. When one moves south for the warmer weather...you must understand that you lose summer. To say the summers are brutal is an understatement. Oct. and Nov. are wonderful, the winters are cold...spring is the first week of April, then summer begins !! I've heard others say that the job market is tuff because the area is over educated. We hope to move soon...not sure where but no further south than VA...and may move toward the midwest. Southerners are very family oriented which is nice,unless you don't have family here. On the other hand, I've heard that if you're a southerner, moving to N.E. , you will NEVER be "one of them." We're going back to 4 distinct seasons, rather than the endless summer !!!
Mary Veronica says:
This is an interesting discussion. I am from New York City, moved to Minneapolis and lived there for 20 years and we retired in Tucson AZ. Love this area a lot but will now be relocating to Wilmington, NC to be near son who married a NC gal. Here we live in an active over 55 situation and it is with most replanted northerners. A different culture here but welcoming. Well, when I sell the lovely casita, that is. Anyway my family wants me closer. I also have a home in Brainerd, MN for the summers so will only winter in Wilmington, NC. Great thoughts expressed that I had not considered.
Leslie says:
I grew up in Brooklyn and moved to Los Angeles at age 19. That was culture shock. I have also lived in CO twice. I lived in Charlotte for 3 years. It was absolutely beautiful. I found myself seeking out transplants because the locals always asked what church I belonged to and if didn't identify one I laid myself open for a conversion conversation. As an atheist it was tuff. I did love the laid back lifestyle and despite growing up in the sweltering heat of Brooklyn, the summers were oppressive. I've been gone 11 years ago but kept my acct. She's a PA transplant!
Peggy G says:
I, too, wish this I had access to such an article 2 years ago before retiring to the south. My husband and I had lived in Michigan and Wisc all our lives. We decided to move to East Tenn, about 30 miles outside of Knoxville. We like living in a rural area and thought it would be a nice transition. We are very friendly and expected the same from our community but have not found that we are welcomed at all. I have been so upset and although we love the beauty of the surroundings we have decided that this has been a horrible mistake. The couple of people we do speak with are very cordial because they are neighbors but that is as close as it gets. Our son moved to Charlotte NC about the same time we moved and his transition has been much more positive. We have decided that NC is much more accepting of us Yankees. And if it were for the snow we would be back in the Midwest in a heartbeat where they accept people for who they are not because they speak differently. The points that were made in this article are the same things that we have found to be true.
Great article.
NY2VA says:
I was raised in rural NYS and then moved to VA after college - we love it here. However, summer is way too hot. Since my wife is a teacher and I do consulting, we enjoy VA all year and then spend 6 weeks in an RV in Amish country of western NY. Consider that approach to get the best of both worlds.
says:
My question is why do people in the south throw trash on the highways? Is this a socio-economic thing? Do lawyers or doctors throw trash out of their car windows?
atleducator says:
I am from the south, born and raised in the Atlanta area. All comments are true; religion is not a private issue. I teach at a college and they allow the bibles to be handed out! I am looking to retire in another part of the US as I am growing tired of the narrow mindedness of its educational system, politics and continued racism. The south has not progressed as it should. I personally think it has a long way to go. I have lived in other areas for a short while, even Europe and find the South a good ole boy system.This article is on the mark.
Coastal Lady says:
I can speak only from our experience. Our daughter lives in Charlotte, they are young and building a family there and love it. We are from PA, retired to the beautiful state of Delaware on the southern coastal beach area. LOVE IT!!Delaware has sooo many things to see and do. Low Low taxes, no sales tax and retirement income not taxed for the first $12,000! It's mild climate in the winters, except for an occasional snow fall, warm springs, summers and long Fall's make Southern Delaware I think the perfect place to retire to. Many Many people are coming here to retire from the NE and even up from the South. It's very deverse and religions of all kinds. Beautiful developments being built from Milford to Bethany Beach that are affordable. Outlet shopping in Rehoboth Beach, boardwalks, and fantastic dining,(ITS CALLED THE CULINARY COAST),beautiful town of Lewes has a harbor and ocean beach, numerous festivals all year long, make this area perfect for retires. Come visit and you will fall in love with Coastal Southern Delaware. :cool:
Marge says:
The Villages retirement community in Florida might seem like a perfect place to retire for a "Yankee". But only if you are white, middle/upper class, straight, and very politically and socially conservative. I am not sure about the religion factor, but pretty sure that once again, a conservative type is de rigeur!
Too bad, as there are so many wonderful features there to enjoy.
Mary W says:
Does anyone have experience with Hot Springs Village in AR? We have looked at homes there and are considering it as a retirement option, with the Gulf Coast of FL as another option. Coming from metropolitan Minnesota, will we be ostracized as Yankees? We are not religious and don't want to be uncomfortable because of it. Thanks.
sandy says:
hello im an armywife ... i am orginally from pittsburgh pa butwe lived everywhere my husband have been stationed in witchita falls texas and that took along time to fit in ...it was slow paced by northern standards the people didnt really start talking to me until i was there at least an year but after that it was wonderful experience .then we moved to watertown upstate ny ...i found it to be rude and just unbareable but after a yr of that i found it to be refreahing and got the ny sence of humor and tude. then we moved to killeen tx and there were alot of mexicans and they were friendly and fun and the hospitality was awesome ...now we are stationed in ft leonard wood missouri and it is back woods really rual but the people here are kind and trusting instint friends ... we are going to retire in florida ft myers where it s very coultural
Paula says:
I lived in the South, Atlanta, and in New England, Stamford CT.
In both places I met great people, and people not so great (e.g. the kind of people they feel they own the land and they can decide who stays or goes). I will most likely retire in Italy, aside the beauty of the land, people are very welcoming and accepting toward new comers. That's civilization.
Iwashere says:
So glad to see this subject come up. I grew up in California and lived in several areas there... along with areas in Oregon. I moved to Arkansas for my now ex...I lived in fort smith and Fayetteville (college town) for around 20 years. Prior to moving to the south I thought the south the people would be warm and friendly and was open to making changes and trying to be part of the culture. I had no idea what I was getting into and how deep the cultural changes would be. My experience was that I would never really fit it. I wasn't raised there, I did not have family there, I did not attend the type of church/religion that was prevalent there, and did not carry with me all of the premises
Iwashere says:
Hit submit button by mistake... And did not carry with me all of the PREJUDICES for so many things ... Politics, religion, where your from, who your family is, if you hunt, if you like football, what race you are ....and the list goes on.
When I see all of the lists of best places to retire ... Many are in the south as stated, you have to wonder why... I know why. Sure it's cheaper.
I recently moved after doing a lot of research, I moved to St Louis. It's in the middle, and economically affordable. There is culture, diversity, and so many things to do.
I
SandyZ says:
Think twice about moving to a small town in New England - unless you were born here and still have family "history" in town, you will always be from "away" and never fully assimilated into the community. The cities are more of a melting pot but steer clear of rural areas or small towns. It sound like this is true in many other areas of the country as well! For us, we ARE going to retire in the South, in a gated community where folks are from all over the country and just want to enjoy their retirement years without the political or religious bantering that goes on in small towns. For me, I plan to garden, exercise, kayak on the beautiful tidal inlets, and enjoy the warm weather and new neighbors! Leaving the cold weather, high cost of living, and opinionated locals behind!
Liz says:
Paula - I'm replanted in Southern VA from Greenwich CT. While I love it here and it is WAY more affordable, I do miss Hard Rolls from Cassone's bakery and a few other northern delicacies. :razz:
jean says:
I moved to the south in 90's with husband and 2 children teen yrs for I thought a better quality of life, it was hell. it is correct the culture difference even today. Unfortunately after living 12 yrs in south moved back to LI after my husband past my children stayed. I have been back on LI now 14 yrs and retired go quite often to the NC to visit my children that are divorce now, n not to mention to southerners and that culture did not work together. I have been contemplating to go back because my kids are there and like sun city Carolina lakes but once you come out of there your back in the south. It has been a very very hard decision to move back. The food, the Yankee thing will never go away the mentality, the driving, the property tax on cars, service is very expensive (salons, car wash, yoga n supermarket are overpriced. the Malls are beautiful but Macy the quality of clothes are leftovers that no one buys in the North. Little city that is dead after 5pm and weekends only the young all over city and all there is is drinking. So big decision to make love my kids but I live now where there is water city mountains all but with my type of people that if you say a bad word you don't get ridicule ..make sure you know what your doing do homework first moving to south if your a non social person its for you..
jean says:
oops!!! I would do anything to have my children back on LI ny... where they grew up. where there is life family that stay together.. where teenagers have things to do and not get bored like in NC. Jobs all over I live in a very desirable active community now that keeps going up in value every yr 1.9% and a 15 yr waiting list why wud I move! I miss my kids ...but yoga. Salons, gyms food are cheaper than NC..
Susan says:
What is Li?
It is interesting to hear people's perspectives. I spent the first 30 years of my life in Missouri. Next 34 in Wisconsin. Chose Texas for retirement. Wisconsin has a drinking culture. I find people in Texas to be polite and much more accepting of cultural diversity. Gas is 40 cents a gallon cheaper and I adore the fresh fruits and veggies that are a reasonable price.
Kathy says:
Having lived in 10 different states during my husband's Army career the best advice I can offer is embrace the differences! Learn about the culture in your new home and don't expect things to be like they were "back home". We moved from MI to SC last June and are loving our new home and life! We have made lots of new friends in our 55+ community which has people from all over. We have also spent time exploring our new state and trying different foods. A plus for us is our daughter moved down with us and now lives 40 minutes away. Our son and his family will be moving to NC this summer so we will be able to see them often. Life is too short not to embrace the good things! Remember that different is just different, not right or wrong.
Elaine says:
I would like to hear from folks who like some affordable urban areas in the south that enjoy them.
I agree with the article and some posters that it is more a question of urban vs rural and to some degree how mobile the population (migration) is. I grew up in north NJ and my got undergraduate degree in Minneapolis. Moved back to north NJ and worked in Manhattan. Moved to Detroit and Chicagoland area for jobs…all very urban. But even in NJ, you did not “own” a house until you moved…then it the Smith’s house and doesn’t become the Jones’ house until the Jones move!
Then to NH (also job)...beautiful, but too rural for me and I lived near Dartmouth! Moved to Birmingham AL for a graduate degree and surprise, loved it. Very cosmopolitan...but I was not that comfortable with the rest of AL, outside of the B'ham area. On to Chapel Hill (loved it)...then Wilmington NC (did not find folks friendly).
Now living in Fredericksburg VA…half way between DC and Richmond, VA. Moved here for job and just retired and deciding where to move to for retirement. I know that most small towns are not for me, but do like some small towns that are close to larger cities. I will probably move to and explore the Raleigh/Durham area and from that base also make trips to Greenville, SC and Charlotte and a few other areas.
Just like we cannot broad brush a state, we sure cannot broad brush a region or even rural vs urban. I had to support myself so I had to move for jobs…it has been an interesting ride and now where? Enjoy these blogs while I try to decide.
Sharon says:
Loved these posts - very helpful. Liz: I sympathize on the hard rolls. I moved to Western PA from CT. The first time I asked a bakery for hard rolls, the clerk looked at me blankly and then asked if I wanted stale bread! Now I'm moving to NC (or SC over the border) for work. My kids will be in PA, so I don't know if this will be temporary or is my retirement destination. I definitely will look at Delaware though, after Coastal Lady's posting. Well, this will be another adventure as Kathy says. I might end up missing pirogi and Western PA foods as much as I missed CT hard rolls.
Mike says:
Susan, I would guess that LI is Long Island.
Sandra says:
Great article....and soooo true!! Born and raised in NY state....NOT the city.....beautiful western NY and decided to get away from winter....moved to FL....BIG mistake.....then moved to central NC ......thinking it would be better.......it's not.....or should I say most of it is not! The Raleigh-Durham-Cary area is excellent for anyone wanting to move to NC from the North...and the Asheville area is too, but don't get too far out into the small towns surrounding Asheville.....they don't like Yankees! I wish, 1000 times a day, that I would have never left the North. I was younger and naive and just did not realize that the war is not over in the South and that the cultural differences would be so dramatic. Now that I have lived here for quite awhile, I still wish I could get back there. Anywhere from the PA state line then due north. Now, I'm afraid I can't afford the move and so here I am. So, please, if anyone is thinking about getting out of the cold and into the unbearable heat and humidity for retirement, think very long and hard about it.........find an area where a lot of other Northerners live and be prepared! There is no such thing as Southern hospitality.......just go and stay for about a month.....then go back up North.........back to good food, friendly people and a great place to live!
Ginger says:
As is often the case on this site, it appears anything in the west has been ignored. Guess what...mississippi is south, Louisianna is south, Arkansas is south, Texas is south, New Mexico and Arizona are South and West...and since this blog editors are Yankees, you may not know it but Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Louisianna all consider themselves southern states and have a very southern sensibility. I grew up in Oklahoma and have lived in Texas and many of the issues outlined in this article are true in those states as well. Racism and bigotry are alive nd well all over the south..across the country. However, they are in the north as well, it is just more well hidden. I just lived in upstate NY for 7 years and was shocked at the bigotry and racism. Sexism. It was awful. I spent most of my life in Northern California. We don't make fun f people for sexual orientation. We serve food in restaurants promptly to people of any color. Unless you want to move to the west coast, you can expect racism and bigotry anywhere you go. that's my experience, from living and traveling all over the country.
Maureen says:
Kathy: Can you tell us which 55+ community in SC you chose & why? How long have you been there & what specifically do you like about it? Thank you for any information you are willing to share.
Bubbajog says:
I have lived most of my 64 years in the Los Angeles metro area. I have traveled a great portion of the country for leisure and business. Also, I have been reading "Top Retirement" blogs for the past 4 years. I have come to my own personal conclusion that I would be disappointed if I were to move out of Southern California. Over the years I have seen too many people move out of Southern California only to make a quick u-turn and bee line back. Yes, California is very expensive and very crowded; but there has to be a reason 38.3 million people live here.
Desertrat says:
I moved from OH where I grew up to NM and then to VA. We live on a beautiful 14 acre piece of ground on a navigable creek and it is the perfect place for boaters, fishermen, crabbers, and other water loving people. We have been here 10 years and currently have our home on the market. It is our prayer that we will return to the southwest AZ or NM. The biggest problem I have with this area is that Virginians are in love with their ancestry. Many people I have met have had a presence in this area for 400 years. They refer to us as "Come-heres". They tolerate us but wish we were only visiting. So do I.
Roseann says:
Wow! I really enjoyed reading every ones thoughts and opinions. My husband & I born,bread in Queens,NY married and moved to LI (yes Long Island)Where Tax's are out of control and 90% are living pay check-paycheck. Winters are getting back to the days when I was growing up..snow storm after sonow storm, now spring..just rain and cold. Summer is nothing but hot haze days. I'm done with LI. We are nearing retirement and,have been looking in the south (NC) for sometime. We visited Cary..loved but now feel every one from NY/NJ/PA moved there and, do not want to feel like we are back on LI. We recently spent a week in Brunswick county,NC I was not loving most areas. We are looking at the South port,Boiling Springs area. Any insist would be great. Our # decision is to RENT 1st! I love the sound of Delaware...will check it out. Thanks again to all
JEB says:
In regard to what Sandra has said is so true about the south. Southern hospitality and ya'll come back now is so untrue. I really don't know why people think that the south and southerners are so warm and friendly. I lived in TN for 15 yrs in a very nice area s. of Nashville and the people are wonderful to your face but don't turn your back on them. I was told that by a co-worker shortly after starting my job Unless you have "kin" or go or will go to their church your are out in the cold. The north and the mid-west have a TRUE warmth (even in the coldest winters). We thought long and hard about moving back southish to escape the winter but remembering ALL of the nasty comments about Yankees and your particular religion(I really didn't think people did that anymore)putting up with snow is better than living 365 days with the southern attutides. So anyone considering a move to (especially tn) do a lot of research and then some more. Anyone I talked to that has had the "southern experience" will tell you the same thing. In some case, the best retirement experience is right in your own backyard.
Norma says:
I have lived in western Tennessee for the past 12 years, having moved from southern Maine for my husband's job transfer. My husband had a hard time dealing with living in a metropolitan area (Memphis) because he has never lived out of the state of Maine. I, however, have lived in Mexico City and Washington, DC (five years after college). It is a culture shock, for sure. The first time somebody asked what church we attended, I thought my husband was going to have a cow. LOL. We soon learned that if we told them we are Catholic, they would leave us alone. We have adapted to living in the south. We plan to retire to the Tampa area for eight months of the year and return to
Dick says:
I find this string of comments most interesting. The editors don't like comments on conservative versus liberal views but seem to have no problems with major bashing of the "South". I am originally from PA but lived in Mass and Ohio before moving to NC twenty four years ago. Is the "South" different from the North? No doubt and if you want to move to the South and change it to the area you moved from, forget it. Do I find the people in NC less friendly than those in Mass? NO!!!! I find lots of people from NJ, NY and Conn moving to my area. Would I like to be their friend? No way, the superior attitude that comes with them is hard to take.
If you are moving "South" in hopes that it will be a suburb of NYC, you are making a big mistake. Are there things I wish were different? Of course. Would I return to the North? No way. If you are not happy, move or better yet, don't come here in the first place.
EDITOR's Note: Dick, you raise a good point. We have edited out some of the more "southern bashing" comments but left a few in, in the spirit of having people share their opinions/experiences. We know many people from the north are considering a retirement move to the south so any shared experiences might be useful.
We personally find some of these comments over the top and biased. We agree with many other posters like you (and rely on you to provide a counterpoint) who recognize that there are 2 sides to every story. Every part of the country has its biases - just try blending in in an old New England town some time! Anyone who thinks the South has the market cornered on bias and two-facedness is just plain wrong. Anyway, we will be on the alert for hurtful, ignorant comments and try to remove them in the spirit of keeping this a friendly and thoughtful place for discussion. Thanks for the comment.
Norma says:
Maine for the four months of summer/early fall. If Florida does not work out, we will live in east Tennessee for the eight months we are not in Maine. I DO NOT RECOMMEND west Tennessee. It has issues - namely, political and racial.
Kathy says:
Maureen, we live in Del Webb Charleston which is actually outside of Summerville. We have been here almost a year and have not regretted our decision. Everyone in the community itself is very friendly and there are so many activities available to keep you busy. We wanted to be close to a military base and also the ocean and we both love history so Charleston seemed like a good fit. We had done a lot of research prior to our first visit here and had planned to look at a couple of places in Florida as well. We ended up making our decision after visiting here and the Hilton Head area as it just felt right for us. For us one of the important lessons we learned in our many military moves is that "home is where the heart is". Let me know if you have any other questions I can help with.
Elaine says:
The South: when I was doing research , I read an interesting article on the definition of the variable South in research. Wish I remembered the source. Of course, it depended on the discipline you were researching (climate, ecology, industrialization, health care costs, poverty, obesity, culture etc. as well as the time period. Of course, there were multiple variables in any study.
Three interesting examples: Southern states
•based on succession from the union during the Civil War/War between the states (this is actually a very common;
•below the Mason-Dixon/ Ohio River line;
•The number of times it was named in a country song. (A favorite of mine for ranking “how southern”)
You can also pick your favorite from this website.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_regions_of_the_United_States or
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/gmdhtml/rrhtml/regdef.html or
have fun with http://www.learner.org/interactives/historymap/fifty.html ... Follow through to the quiz
PS Florida is often not considered southern for certain types of research.
Ellen says:
I would appreciate any insights/comments about active communities in the South, especially Florida. My finances are limited, both with regard to buying a condo and not getting hit with exorbitant HOA fees. I'm currently in Missouri in an isolated area. After my husband died, I no longer want to be out in the middle of nowhere and far from a big city. Visited a friend who lives at one of the Century Village communities in Deerfield Beach, Florida. I need a lot of activities, and especially need to be able to swim year round. I've lived in NY and miss deli food, so was happy to find everything I liked available in Florida. It felt like NYC South. Not sure about the heat and humidity, but I'm hoping that being more active will enable me to become healthier, lose weight, and tolerate the heat better. It seems to be important to investigate the HOA before moving to make sure you don't get in with difficult, unreasonable people. I would be interested in any information (good/bad/ugly) about such active retirement communities. Thanks--I've really enjoyed your comments. Like hearing about personal experiences and perceptions.
Gail says:
Roseann: My daughter lives in Southport and loves it. It's a lovely little town that has retained much of it's charm because it's out of the way. Every time I've spent time there, I've been impressed with how friendly everyone is. We are considering a move there in the not too distant future. Good Luck with your search.:mrgreen:
Mike M says:
When I was in the Air Force in 1974 I was stationed at Charleston AFB. The area was beautiful but one thing we could not stand was the smell of the papermills especially in the hot, humid summer. Can anybody tell me if the smell is still there.
Debra says:
Dick that is very true. If you replaced the word Southerner with liberal, conservative, black, or white some of these comments would be deleted in a flash. Anytime an article states, Our apologies if this offends anyone, the author already knows they are going to be offensive and decides to go ahead.
Editor's Note: Thanks Debra. Please see our comment added to Dick's excellent post above.
SandyZ says:
Love Dick's comments! We all can relate to someone who is new in our town, wherever that town is, constantly commenting about how things were done back in whatever town. I have moved several times and I always meet these Negative Nancy's. Of course she/he is usually insinuating that it was better back there! If you are planning to move, leave all of that behind, ease into your new hometown, relish the differences, and discuss the weather, the new museum you visited, the best restaurant you have found - anything but your fantastic previous address. Quick turnoff and you will never be happy!
Godsgirl says:
Having moved from the MW to W TN, I can affirm that it is a culture shock...at first. Our biggest problems were, at first, finding a decent contractor and seeing so many stray animals on the road. But we have solved one problem and noticed that the other is being resolved...slowly, but they are making progress.
But nevertheless, wherever you are, go out and mingle, discover, get to know people. Southerners are like people everywhere. Northerners talk behind your back just as they do down south, with the exception that here, it ends with a "bless their heart". You find the good with the bad, you find highly intelligent and industrious people right next to those who haven't seen a bar of soap in a while and let the world go by.
What you have around here are very low property taxes and fairly low COL. Summers are from hot to hotter, and the winters are cold, but nothing too extreme. At the moment (almost 9 a.m. CST, I have all the windows open and feel a nice breeze coming in, while I am watching an amazing array of songbirds in our front yard. It will be in the 90's later on.)
You will find everything from hiking trails to boating, swimming, fishing... TN river and lake (Pickwick Dam), golfing and many historical sites. The more we look, the more we find, and we are discovering more daily.
What's nice about this area is that we don't have to mingle if we don't want to. Its not that crowded. If you want to mingle, you will find people within short commute.
And one more thought. The south is slowly changing. The more people become engaged in what is happening around them, the more it will progress. So while we were searching for greener pastures, we realized that the pastures all come with negatives. Its why we have decided in favor of making this place our home base, are in the process of buying an RV and will be discovering America whenever we feel like it.
While exploring, we came across this community that may be of interest for some.
http://www.pickwickpinesresort.com/
If you want communities and amenities, there are several other in the area. (If you can't find them on the web, please feel free to contact me.)
But its also very affordable and safe to live on your own, if you don't mind doing your own maintenance.
So, these are my (our) thoughts and experiences. Husband nods.
Sandie says:
How warm a welcome would a southerner receive on LI? Accents would be ridiculed and a request for grits with a soft boiled egg in any diner would get the same blank stare as a request for hard rolls.
Arrogant Yankees need to stay home. They will never be happy anywhere else, and they can use the money they save by not moving to pay those ever escalating taxes.
Kathy says:
Mike M, I only notice the paper mill smell when we are on I526 heading toward Daniel Island. Our daughter lives on Daniel Island and usually can't smell it.
Roseann says:
Gail..Thanks so much. were about in South Port. Is he in a home community.
I really fell in love there. would love to hear more about it.
Bubbajog says:
The folks that I believe really take a bashing are those from New York City and its suburb New Jersey. It appears that many people find these folks very obnoxious and annoying.
Stacey says:
This topic is very interesting. As a born and bred NYer (the city not upstate), I always find us being bashed. And the "true" NYers feel that the people from the Midwest are obnoxious and annoying especially when they move to New York and think they have to be nasty to fit in. As my mom always told me when I was growing up, there are good and bad in every kind. I think that certainly applies to any area of this wonderful country. If you are open and friendly, treat others with the respect they deserve, I think any place has the potential to become home.
Roseann says:
Stacey, Thank you for stick up for us New Yorkers....We really are good people...As are the people in the South. People are people.
Roseann says:
Would love to see more links and info on 55+ in NC.
Sharon says:
I also thought this was interesting. I will be relocating for my job and I know that I've been talking a lot about "back home." It's not that I'm not receptive to discovering that "new home" is going to be great....I'm just a little homesick and am grieving for the things I loved "back home." I hadn't thought about how it might be perceived, but 'll definitely try to avoid doing this anymore.
I work all over the country, and have noticed that a lot of prejudices are related to speech patterns. I've heard people in the North talk about Southerners being dumb because it takes them so long to say anything, and I've heard Southerners say Northerners are rude because they talk fast or talk over other people. People have told me they hate Boston/R.I./N.Y., N.J., Long Island accents, and that they hate Southern drawls. Regional accents are also criticized (Pittsburgh's "the car needs warshed...."). It's all pretty ridiculous when you think about the fact that someone with a strong accent could end up being one of the nicest, smartest, or most interesting people you'll ever meet, if you just give him/her a chance.
Gail says:
Roseann: If there's a way for you to get me your email address, I'll send it along to Kristen (daughter who lives in Southport). I'm sure she'd be happy to answer any of your questions.
There's a new 55+ development breaking ground this fall. It's named The Charles and looks really promising. We're going to check it out during our next Southport trip. Kris said they're going to be building a Lowe's supermarket right across the street from it. It's going to near St. James Plantation.
Iwashere says:
Must leave a comment to those that have posted above stating that it's in your attitude and how you embrace your new location as to whether you will become part of the community. Although I do agree that you do need to move to a new area with an open mind and an accepting spirit, it's something I've always done moving to a new location, I found that after twenty years in the south, I will never fit in. I did meet some very nice people and was involved in many activities, with church, volunteering, school activities etc. But when it comes down to it in the end I am still a Yankee. I never adjusted to thE prejudices of every kind. Having moved to the south when I was stillll working I saw the good ole boy system in play, your qualifications didn't matter as much as to where you went to church, what town you grew up in, and if you voted a particular way. It's just the way it is, some places are not as accepting of differences as others. It goes way beyond your attitude towards them and your new area? You can insulate yourself to a degree by being in a restricted community, not working, or keeping to yourself but in the end this is your home where at some point you are a part of the society as a whole...going to doctors, hospitals, churches, taking classes, shopping, going to social gatherings... Or whatever... your life isn't always going to be Inside the walls of a development.
Just wanted to bring in a point of view from a Yankee who although well intentioned had the experience of being a Yankee in the south. I think when you get to your retirement years you feel better in an area that is closer to who you are as an individual, the weather and finances do come into the mix when you are contemplating a change, but you need to take into consideration cultural differences as this article brings up.
Linda says:
I've spent a fair amount of time being a Yankee in the south. My dad was a hospital administrator in the Army and we moved around a lot, mostly in the south. My mother spent the last 40 some years of her life living in a small town in North Carolina. She went to the Catholic church, which was way outside the experience of most of the people there. That didn't stop her from having many lovely friends. The community eventually started an interfaith group and they all visited each others churches and synagogues and experienced all the different traditions. When mother died and there was no place at the Catholic church to hold the luncheon after her funeral, the Baptists offered their gathering room. Just one example of lovely southern hospitality.
Now as for prejudices, there are prejudices up north as well. People are people. Not everyone will think or believe as you do. That's what makes the world interesting.
Bubbajog says:
Fortunately we live in a large country and have the freedom to make home wherever we find the greatest comfort.
Stacey says:
To Iwashere: If you think the good old boy system is only alive and well in the South, you need to think again. It's just as prevalent in NYC. Each industry has their own unique system but it boils down to the same thing.
Larry says:
Issues between northerner and southerners are a little more complicated than the stereotypes suggest. I own a vacation home in SC, and I have found my southern neighbors there a mixed bag of attitudes -- annoying intolerant of people they have never met and incredibly hospitable and generous with people they know. Many years ago, I manager I met who was raised in Tupelo, MS, and moved with our company 10 times, told me he and his young family were happiest in the New York area. "You know where you stand [with New Yorkers]," he said. Many years later, I was talking with the lady who ran the bed and breakfast I stayed at in Hertford, NC, while I was reviewing a local golf community to which many northerners had moved. "Do you mind the wave of Yankees coming down here?" I asked her. "Oh, no," she said. "They are very quick to volunteer for our local organizations," she said with a wry smile. "Why are you smiling?" I asked. "Well, within six months or so of joining an organization," she said, "they want to run it." Good advice to anyone moving from one part of the country to another is to wait longer than, say, six months to reveal your inclinations.
David says:
I currently live in the Midwest, grew up in the south, but have lived in the west and north central areas of the US. In evaluating potential areas for retirement my wife and I have focused on the SE for a number of reasons. By working and living in these diverse areas I have grown to appreciate the genuine hospitality and genteel manners of the south. Yes, good people can be found throughout our country, but I gravitate back to real southern charm and ease in which you can meet and form friendships without the abrupt, in-your-face personal interaction or complete disregard of your true persona that seems to characterize other regions. Where else can you be so quickly assimilated into a new environment? The south beats all comers.
ella says:
Larry - I loved your comment! I'm a New Yorker. I'm kind, honest, good-hearted, and you just described me perfectly. I'm sitting here at my computer smiling. Thanks for the apt description; i WILL take it to heart!
Maureen says:
Kathy: Thank you for your response. Have you ever looked at, or are you familiar with, "The Elms of Charleston" or "Southern Palms" in Ladson, SC. My husband and I plan on visiting these sites in July. Any information would be appreciated. Thank you.
Robert says:
Hey ella, I use to be conceited but now I think I am a hell'va nice guy.
Just enjoy kidding a New Yorker. Hey we are all Cousins = have the same uncle Sam.
Ciao
ella says:
:razz: Robert
Ann says:
After retiring here from N.Y. to a small city near Charlotte I everyday miss the conveniences of New York. It is very boring here. Trying to become involved but it is not the same. Homesick
ella says:
Hi Robert,
In response to your remark; that was meant to be a smile, not a razz. A while back you said you'd chosen Tenn. over No. Carolina because of taxes. Were you referring to state or more than that? Thanks again, e.
Robert says:
ella - RE taxes are much much cheaper (IMO) in NE TN compared to NC. We haven't made any final decisions yet - have not sold our home here in Pa. Probably be Gulf side of Central Fl or NE Tn.
My wife is a New Yorker (Sicilian) from the Bronx to Long Island to Florida and now Pa! My Grandad came from County Clare, Ireland so when I met my wife I told her you are not Sicilian - Your Medirterranean IRISH. So we got married/lol
Dave C. says:
This is a very interesting track of comments. I am a life-long south side Chicagoan, (62 years) about to move "lock, stock & barrel" to Mesa, AZ.
I see the clear message of acceptance differences for people moving into the southern part of the country, and sometimes vice versa.
THE BIG QUESTION.......Does the southWEST fall in the "south" bucket?
Is the southwest United States not as firmly entrenched in traditional Southern traditions and acceptance issues?
If there is a difference between the deep south and the west and southwest parts of the country, could it be that 100 years ago the west and southwest we're very, very sparsely populated?
I ask these questions because my many visits to the southwest have never resulted in standoffish behavior or lack of acceptance.
I'm moving in September anyway, but I would appreciate anyone's experience about attitudes in the Southwest, in places like Arizona and New Mexico and even Colorado. ????
Mark Cassidy says:
I also was born and raised on the North side of Chicago.I'm 61 and my wife and have been in the Phoenix metro area for 18 years. Don't worry about moving here half the people who live here came from back east. As a mater of fact people refer to this area as Chicago West because there are so many transplants. They just opened a Portobello's restaurant in Scottsdale. The CUBS & White SOX play spring ball here there is a lot of Chicago culture here. You will meet so many people from Chicago here you'll never be home sick. The only thing that you will have to be concerned about is the summer heat.
Dave C. says:
Thank you Mark: I suspected what you said might be true, and you confirmed it! I think the restaurant you referred to is "Portello's" and I heard one was open in Scottsdale with another planned for Mesa! The rest of the readers of this blog will have to forgive Mark and I for referring to "Portello's"....but it just happens to be Chicago's favorite sandwich shop with the best beef, Italian sausage and Chicago Dog sandwiches in both hemispheres!!!
Believe it or not Mark...but Mr. Portello is SELLING ALL 35 OF HIS SHOPS!!
But I diverse. I feel much better now that I know the PHX/Mesa area is more of a melting pot of cultures. Thanks! :cool:
Roseann says:
Gail...Kris. Thanks! I so appreciate this. my e-mail address is rjpluchino@aol.com my husband & I will be returning to SouthPort in Aug for another house hunt. I'd love to meet your daughter..who know maybe we will all be friends.
Vickie says:
I grew up in the Midwest. I heard more comments about my accent in Boise than I do here in the outskirts of metro Atlanta, we are about 40 miles out. I have met some really nice southern folks and then had a neighbor call me a dang Yankee behind my back. I guess if the war was fought on northern turf and had lost, we might have the same attitude as some southerners do. Generally, I find people quite nice here. There were jerks up north too so I'm staying in the south for the weather, it's beauty and charming small towns.
Mark Cassidy says:
Sorry Dave I did meant Portello's. I do have to say though when I retire from the school district next year that I will be relocating to Marble falls Texas.Phoenix has become too big and crime has really increased over the past 10 years. Last night someone broke into a Catholic Church and killed a 29 year old priest and shot another in a robbery attempt A couple of weeks ago a police office was targeted and killed by reservation gang members in Scottsdale I feel like I'm back on 63rd and Stoney Island. Also lots of border related crimes not to mention traffic has become unbearable. Most people from this area now retire up in Prescott or Payson
I chose Marble falls TX because it is a small retirement town that is close to Austin which is very beautiful & cultured college town. last but not least Texas is 1 of only 10 states that does not tax your Social Security, pensions or Retirement income, not to mention no state income tax.
Dave C. says:
Mark; your remarks about the crime in Phoenix makes a lot of sense, particularly with your experience at 65th and Stoney. I know the area. We are moving into the north east corner of Mesa. I hope that area will give us some peace from the raging crime areas in other parts of the metro community. We bought my father-in-law's patio home in the Apache Wells II gated community. Your comments about the geographical melting pot of people in the greater Phoenix area were very helpful to us.
I hope the Lone Star State treats your family with the utmost courtesy and respect. We can all do loads of due diligence before making a geographical move, but I think we all need a huge dose of luck to help things turn out okay. Good travels. ????
Leonard says:
Hey Mark and Dave C, are you really from Chicago? :-) As Chicagoan's you should know Portillo's is spelled with an "I" not an "e". Also there is no "e" in Stony Island. You are correct that Mr. Portillo wants to sell his restaurant chain. Great Italian beef sandwiches and other fare. Sorry, I just couldn't resist teasing you guys.
Dave C. says:
Leonard: my wife is still laughing at me. She said, "you corrected Mark's spelling of Portillo's, by misspelling it again!" After she saw your Stony vs. Stoney correction she determined buying her lunch at Portillo's this afternoon will be my penalty.
So let's see, the result of my misspellings is that I get to enjoy a lunch of an Italian sausage/beef sandwiche at Portillo's today. I should make a habit of misspelling! ????
In just over 60 days I will be unloading furniture at my new home in the north east sector of Mesa, Arizona. I promised to report back to this thread about our experiences with the southwestern U.S. ????
Leonard says:
Dave C.: Lucky you, getting lunch at Portillo's. Best wishes to you on your move to Mesa. With the Portillo's in Arizona you will have the opportunity to get a taste of Chicago in your new home. I look forward to your comments on your experiences there. For now I'm staying in good ol' Chicago land. Though another winter like the past one could have me changing my mind.
ann says:
Hi, Does anyone know a good place to retire in RI or Mass?? I am living in NC and it is really regressed. Ann
Elaine says:
Ann, how has NC regressed?
Tony Conte says:
Why would anyone want to retire in Mass. or RI? I've lived in Massachusetts all my life and cannot wait to escape its taxes and corrupt politicians. Mass. taxpayers pay amongst the highest taxes per capita in the nation and suffer under a one-party dominated government that taxes and regulates everything. The Mass. Estate Tax on the privilege of dying is incredibly onerous. You certainly don't want to die in either Mass. or RI if you care for your loved ones. Florida, Nevada and even New Hampshire look like very attractive escape.
mark cassidy says:
Leonard are you an English teacher by chance? I apologize for misspelling Stoney Island but you see I'm from North Chicago Edgewater and I was at 63rd and Stoney Island only once in 1967 when I was 14 and I had 5 Blackstone rangers holding a gun to my head so I really didn't take the necessary time to memorize the spelling of Stoney Island on the street sign I was a tad preoccupied and after all it has been 47 years. At least Dave got a good meal out of the deal. Happy Fathers day men.
Sandie says:
Also puzzled about the Mass RI question. In my central Virginia subdivision of 37 homes, the last three homes that sold were to folks from Mass. They couldn't wait to escape the cold winters and high taxes.
NancyW says:
Born and raised in MA. Parents born and raised in RI, family summer home near the ocean in RI (was in Newport today, as a matter of fact. It was glorious!!!). Would love to retire in MA or RI except for the taxes, the corruption, the politics and the winters. All our family is up here so we are thinking of looking at NH (hope to get there before all the people from MA move up there and change it!) for April- Dec 31st and then renting some place warmer for Jan-March.
Bonnie Heisler says:
Hi all - I have lived in Massachusetts (Berkshires) my entire life - I'm 62. They don't call it "Taxachusetts" for nothing. Looking to move to NC, SC or TN for retirement. Tired of home ownership, the cold winters and shoveling snow. I know that there is snow everywhere,and I'm in for some culture shock, but I'm looking forward to living somewhere other than Massachusetts. I enjoyed the 4 seasons when I was younger and looked forward to all, but its getting harder and harder to tolerate the cold winters up here and getting up at 3 or 4 am just to get the driveway shoveled so I can get to work. Its definitely lost its charm. I have a sister in VA and her winter rivaled ours this year but that is not the norm. Heading south next month to look at places with my brother and sister-in-law and can't wait! We'll try to be respectful tourists while down there, unlike some of the tourists that visit the Berkshires in Mass.in the summer. Quite entitled, thank you very much, pushy, bossy and self important. I know nothing about Rhode Island but Massachusetts would never be on my list for retirement.
ann says:
Thank you all for the advise on New England especially Massachusetts. sounds like New Hampshire is a better idea. Elaine I am saying that N.C. regressed because I am living in a small city that hasn't kept up with the rest of the country. It seems like it is 1950 here. I know that the larger cities in N.C. have more to offer. Ann
ann says:
Hi Tony, Thank you for the advise. I guess thinking about a Ma retirement isn't too financially beneficial. I just love Ma especially the south shore . Currently here in N.C. in a city that seems set in the past. Ann
Leonard says:
Hi Mark Cassidy: Hope you had a great fathers day as well. Sorry, about your experience in 1967. Not a teacher, but I worked at the Social Security office at 63rd and Cottage Grove from 1978 - 1990 (also Blackstone Rangers territory, though by then I believe they were calling themselves El Rukn)so I got to learn the spelling of all the streets in the area. Yes, that can be a scary part of the city, though you do have nearby Hyde Park and the University of Chicago.
Like so much in life our perceptions of safety are influenced by our personal experiences. I often take note of comments here on Top Retirements about the crime rate and relative safety of the cities mentioned as popular retirement locales. One person's high crime may be another's "just a day in the life". The same with taxes. What one person considers high taxes may be low for another depending upon where they live. As you know we have high property taxes, sales taxes, gas prices etc. in the Chicago area. Escaping high tax areas for low tax ones may not be all it's cracked up to be. As many of the comment threads here attest, you also have to consider your comfort zone with people of different political and social ideologies.
Elaine says:
Ann, Thanks...I am thinking of the Raleigh area.
Just a note on NH, parts are relatively rural and you might not find that to your liking. When I was there, there was no income tax (except something on investments) and no sales tax, but property tax was high. I was right near Dartmouth and still found it a bit rural for me. Lots of "mountain men" I remember hiring for the company that I was with at the time. You could have a beard, but not for positions working with the public...I had more than one man just get up and walk out when they heard that!
mark cassidy says:
You are absolutely correct Leonard everything is relative. Are you still living in the Chicago land area?
Betty says:
71 years old; born and raised in NH, but have done alot of traveling in an RV for months at a time. Yes, our cities are more "rural" than cities like Boston, MA, but Boston is less than 1.25 hours drive from my home, Montreal in Canada is a 5.5 hour drive. New York City is a 6 hour drive. The Atlantic Ocean is an hour away and the mountains are about 1.5 hours from my home. The closest big lake is 20 miles away. I love the changing seasons, especially fall with the leaves changing color to vibrant yellows, reds, and orange. I find the warm weather states, such as Arizona and Florida, nice for a visit but would not like to live there year-round, as there's not enough diversity in the weather for me. I even enjoy the beauty of winter. Being retired, I can stay home when weather is bad, should I choose to do so. During a snowstorm, the road crews do a great job of clearing roads and quickly. I NEVER missed a day of work due to weather in all my years of working as a Registered Nurse. After my husband died, I hired someone to plow my driveway and shovel my walkway. It's not difficult to find help, if needed. It is cold during the winter months. There's the added costs for heating during this time.
We have no income tax, estate tax, or sales tax, except for a 9% tax on rooms (hotels/motels) and meals (restaurants). We have a state 5% "interest and dividends tax" on any interest and dividends above a specific amount, which, as I recall, is $2500. Our property taxes are high, as is our town tax and registration fees on vehicles, including RVs/campers. (Of note, those fees decrease as the vehicle ages.)
I don't understand the reference to "mountain men". Yes, some men have beards- many are in the upper income brackets, as well as those in the low-to middle income. Many are retired. Many have trimmed beards as they look better/more "distinguished" and it hides a "double chin!:wink:
I read these forums, which I find enlightening, because there may be a time when I'll want to spend a few of the winter months out of the cold or need to be in an area with a lower cost of living.
Leonard says:
Mark Cassidy: Yes, I still live in the Chicago area. I live in Oak Park which is a suburb next to Chicago. I retired last year and have no immediate plans to move. I don't want to sound excited about paying taxes, but Illinois does not tax pensions and social security. So, I'm somewhat looking forward to filing my 2014 taxes and seeing what a difference that will make as my only taxable income will be dividends and interest on my savings. That break for retirees in a small way makes up for the high property and sales taxes we pay in Cook County. Of course, the state is in such bad financial shape it may only be a matter of time before the politicians decide they need to tax social security and pensions.
Elaine says:
"Mountain men"...getting up and walking out on an interview are the type that I refer to. they were very interested in the position until near the end when that corporate directive was mentioned. seems odd to me. And the comment was directed to the women who did not care for small town NC. Just pointing out that it might not be solved by sections of NH
Lynne says:
I agree with Betty. Despite the fact you see "mountain men", I doubt it is any more than in other parts of the country (like smokey mountains). If you are determined to retire in a place that has "corporate types", I suggest Connecticut.
Betty did not mention that many areas of New Hampshire are expensive for home purchase. But, there are many "fixer uppers" on big lots. These give you the option of customizing your new home. If you don't want to do that, there are a number of active adult communities.
Don't write off an area of the country because men wear beards. I despise beards on men, but I wouldn't choose a part of the country because men wore beards, trimmed or not.
ella says:
Once again, this forum is getting off track (sorry Lynne). Content is not an opinion poll on facial hair on men. And yes, (Betty) it does hide 'turkey neck' on men without surgery.
Elaine says:
Just pointing out the obvious...we all want different things. My comment is NOT about the beards, but the attitude of SOME of the people...it's about men who get up, knocking over a chair and walking out without any comment because you mentioned a corporate policy. Just pointing out that you get that attitude everywhere and the north is not exempt from "THE SOUTH" when it comes to attitude...I am a Yankee and born and raised in NJ...cannot retire to NJ...far too expensive now...but I have gotten along quite well in NJ, MI, IL, NH, AL, NC and VA and will probably try somewhere new. Live free or Die!
Jeanne C says:
:cool: Lol! I thought this was an opinion/fact sharing page on northerners moving south to become southerners. I live north of Orlando & east of Tampa & West of Daytona Beach. Have been here for over 20 years - a transplant from Wisconsin with a detour thru Oklahoma. A. costs: if you don't buy property on the beach or near the beach, don't live in the 'big cities', Orlando - Miami etc & don't buy a 'palace', costs are reasonable, insurance is available, no state income taxes - & in my county - homestead laws get you somewhat lower property taxes which, again, if you don't own the palace, are reasonable. Sales tax in my area is .062% of general mdse. However, I am still a 'northerner' in my heart & if I had enough money to have my driveway & sidewalk shoveled & my lawn mowed or live in a condo and could afford a garage & an electric car-oil-heater (my car engine froze one year in Wi) I would still move back 'nort'. I am one of those people who doesn't mind the cold - extremely miss the change of seasons & am extremely allergic to mold so as in 'right now', June - September, cannot take part in outside activities for more than an hour. I have family up there & down here so that's always going to be a problem I can't solve (neither are interested in relocating right now:shock: ). My husband is also from up north - he says it correctly cuz he's from new York originally. He loves it here - he thrives in the warmth. We live in a 'block' home so have been thru 3 hurricaines in one season - only the metal carport blew away. Bugs here too but we take care of our home so haven't seen any of those inside in forever. Little 'geckos' running around outside - don't bother anyone or anything. So there you have it - a transplanted northerner who never really adjusted & a transplanted northerner who would never move back ... which is your desire?
ella says:
Elaine - So sorry; my succinct style does not seem to suit a blog. I was not referring to your comment, which i thought was extremely helpful given the topic. I was referring to personal comments on mens' facial hair, which i now feel has been so over stated that i am even loathe to write this. However, please know i was not referring to your perceptive and helpful comments. I will try to do better in the future. ella.
Sandra says:
Please let me know where there is just an absolutely great place to live. I mean one with low taxes, no corruption, very low to no crime, everybody likes everybody, there's a lot to do, etc, etc,
I need to make plans to go there ASAP because I live in the south and don't like it (I'm a Yankee). I really can't afford to move .... but if this perfect place exists....i will be there in a flash regardless of the cost!
Joe Braun says:
Thanks for all comments. Midwesterner who has lived in suburban NYC for 25 years. Trying to find a place with lower taxes and milder climate. Lived in Charlotte back in '90's and still have friends there. It is a great city with great people but brutal summers. As an old southern gentleman told me air conditioning saved the south. If you go, be ready to spend much of summer is A/C. Looking at southern Delaware. Any thoughts?
Elaine says:
Sandra, It doesn't exist :)! But what are you escaping from in the south? The weather, the people, the insects, too much traffic and tourists, too rural or something else.
Sandra says:
Joe B.......I've been looking into Delaware......planning trip later this summer.....I have been looking in Lewes and surrounding area. Will know more when I get up there...... and I'll let you know.
Elaine......all of the above.........!
Lorrie says:
NJ gal who has been living in south FL for 30 years. It is far to congested, the crime rate, even in my excellent neighborhood and the costs are skyrocketing. Hurricane insurance on my VERY modest 2/2 house running $4000 a year. We are moving soonest. The choice is either northern rural FL not on the coast or Colorado. The traffic here seems to have doubled just in the last 5 years....gotta get out of this place! Anyone from southern Colorado???
Alice says:
Lorrie, I lived in Southern Colorado 10 years. What exactly to you want to know?
Fionna says:
Joe B and Sandra,
Almost bought in Delaware last year. Pulled out due to potential for flooding in the community, propane gas ($), expensive water (most residents have a well dug), long lines to get into restaurants (even in Feb). Many communities have smaller lots so if you don't mind being close to neighbors you may be ok.
Maureen says:
Lorrie: It would be helpful to know what area in south Florida are you living in? Could you narrow it down a little more. Thanks.
sunlovingal says:
Joe B and Sandra: My husband and I moved to DE Lewes/Rehoboth area 7 years ago..absolutely love it here! Great people and a variety of places to live, Condos, Townhomes, singles...so much to do. Great change of seasons, not to harsh mid atlantic winters. Golf courses, and of course gorgeous beaches fantastic restaurants and pretty walkable seaside towns...I could go on, but come see for yourself. :cool:
Lorrie says:
Alice, looking for a rural area that is still close to healthcare and some activities. We are going to visit the area in October, but need to narrow it down a bit. Good Gardening area a must, we want acreage (10-40) but access to a town. Have looked at Pueblo and Durrango online...
Lorrie says:
Maureen, I live in Hollywood Fl, between, Miami and Ft Lauderdale.
Maureen says:
Lorrie, thanks a bunch. Every bit of information helps me narrow down my search!
Liz says:
Not sure what everyone is calling "North" and "South", but TN and VA are GREAT places to live. I live in the Winchester, VA area. Very nice, affordable and low price.
Nikki says:
I like what I have read regarding the Del Webb community in Ave Maria, Florida. Does anyone have any comments regarding this 55+ community which is within an all ages community. I would love to hear pros and cons. Your input is welcome.
CJ says:
Lorrie....
It sounds like you're looking for Ocala Fl... It has Everything you're looking for.
Alice says:
Lorrie, you won't find many gardening opportunities in Pueblo, nor in any other place close to it. From the Springs on down it is painfully dry. (Not sure about northern Colorado, they do get more snow). Most lawns in Pueblo are zero-scaped or if let alone, turn to dirt although my neighbor tried to grow tomatoes in raised beds. If you are still interested would recommend you check out Pueblo West east of McCullough. There are large houses on acreage, many people keep a pony or two. Don't know much about Durango (there you would be living on the western slope) other than houses are very expensive due to mineral content found in the ground. There are lots of things to do in the cities, but most I knew headed for the mountains for a weekend of hiking and camping. Colorado offers a great life-style if you can take the cold. Personally, I miss it and trying to convince hubby to make another move... You might want to check out Falcon, east of the Springs. Especially if you're retired military because it is close to Peterson AFB, but far enough away from the Springs to avoid at least some of the congestion.
ella says:
Hi Liz,
I am interested in SW Virginia, particularly Galax. Ever been there? Any comments? I'm looking for an attractive, warm, homey town with hiking near by.
My other concern about VA and NC is that they both tax income; but to be quite honest, i'm not sure how much $ this would come to annually. If anyone was any input on this issue, please feel free to respond. Thanks!
ella says:
Sorry for typo above. That's if anyone HAS any iput on this issue
Sandie says:
There are two Virginias. The "golden crescent" running from DC to Virgina Beach along I 95and I 64 with a westerly bulge to charlottesville is very different from the rest of the state. Comments in this thread about rural versus urban apply here. Virginia taxes are far less burdensome than states to the north, and are different. You might want to do the entire calculation and not just apples to apples. No one likes to pay taxes, but the goverment services we all want are not funded by fairy dust. Folks who took their government from high tax states to move to low tax states need to remember this.
The most important message in this blog is do your own homework and figure out what suits you best. But, if anyone does find the perfect place, please let the rest of us know!
Liz says:
@ Ella. Galax is about 4 hours south of where I live. I believe it is fairly rural, but I am not sure. I found a great link - http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/cost-of-living/ for comparing where you live to where you are considering moving. I love Virginia.
Alice says:
Lorrie - oops! Meant to say in Pueblo West check out north of Highway 50 -- on McCullough and Purcell. Also, you might want to look into towns that are just east of Pueblo and I-25 which offer a rural lifestyle.
Jeanne C says:
:cool: If anyone here has access, either directly or online to The Daytona Beach News-Journal there is a short-but-sweet article about retirees moving to less 'taxing' climes. Today's (Sunday, 6 29 2014) Paper states that a study by William Frey, a demographer at the Brookings Institution: Top 6 most popular metropolitan cities for seniors are: Phoenix, Riverside, Ca, Tampa-St Petersburg, FL, Atlanta, GA & Denver, Colo. I live east of Tampa & North of Orlando - in other words - if ever needed, access to some top-notch medical facilities & docs (UF in Gainesville) & Orlando specialty hospitals, but still reasonable traffic in the shopping areas around me. A small specialty college (Stetson) in the town next door! I'm going to repeat myself here - if you stay away from Orlando, or any of the other cities, especially on the coasts (east or west or south) prices are reasonable, housing, insurance, etc. Property taxes also. A word of caution - don't bring your landscaping from up 'North' expectations because water is not plentiful & we don't get the deep freezes necessary to sustain most of your plants/trees. I so miss my peonies & lilacs for instance. But we have other gorgeous flora/fauna. If you have enough money you can have your St Augustine grass (costly) that needs to be constantly watered & manicured. Water is expensive - we don't water outside plants/grass - only 2 of us in the home so not a lot of wash or dishwashing going on. Our monthly bill averages $65 & we are considered low-volume users. That's per month, folks, not every 3 months/quarterly like we paid up north. Everything else runs about the same as anywhere else for household costs. Natural gas is used in this area (or electric, of course) for heating, in the older homes. I don't know about the brand new ones. Take my word for it -- it is cheaper than electric!!! Hope that helps if someone needs cost ideas for their decisions. As stated before, I'm from Wisconsin & wish I was still there (only if I had the money to have a garage & electric car engine warmer) & someone to shovel the snow !!). I don't mind the cold - even now as an older person - but my summer is your winter - stuck inside most of the time because my system cannot take the humidity & heat combo. And I miss my seasons (other than the snow-bird ones we have here) ...Would like to relocate to SE Tennessee but 2 adult children live near-by. two others in Wi plus all the grands & greats. A real dilemma. No one in our family has the time or especially the money to travel. We have family scattered all over the US so there you have it. If I can help in any way finding info please let me know here.
CJ says:
LORRIE...
Most everything Jeannie reported about Gainsville FL just about applies to Ocala Fl..altho Both have completely different personalities. Accesibility to major hospitals in both. Ocala has 2 hospitals (Ocala Regional and Munroe hospital across the street from each other) that are consistly in the "TOP 100 HOSPITALS iN AMERIA" List.. with Monroe hospital being in the "TOP 5" for Cardiology.
Ocala is 45 minites south of Gainsville...1.5 hrs north from Orlando....2 hrs from Jacksonville, Daytona and Tampa and 1.5 hrs between the 2 Great Bodies of water..(Atlantic & Gulf of Mexico).
Central & North Central Florida usually is spared from really wretched Hurricanes and such (Disney researched and with this reasoning, decided to move in North Central Florida instead of South Florida) If I remember right. Disney has only closed ONCE because of weather.
Going north past Orlando there are no Canals..but a good amount of rivers and Lakes and "HILLS"...thats right hills...beautiful "ROLLIN HILLS" with Pastures with many Grazing prize Horses and Cattle. Some areas still have Fruit farms.
Its generally true if you stay from the Florida's popularize areas you can still find reasonable prices for everything. The 3 caveats you have to make up your mind that will happen is...
1/ The Natural beauty of Florida will be slowly taken away from wherever you live in Florida...to be turned into Housing Developments and half empty stores in shopping malls by the Developers.
2/ usually with the Blessings of the Greedy Polititions & Commissioners..
Florida is full of suspect polititions who love "MONEY"..whether in their campaigns or pockets. I have never meet one that didnt. But this all happens slowly over time and perhaps there is still time to get a chance to enjoy it all.
ALSO
NEVER EVER MOVE TO A TOURIST AREA UNLESS YOU WANT TO BE CONSIDERED 2ND IN LINE...
Lorrie says:
CJ Amen to that last sentence! Really what happened to this lovely little town, sadly. The last 5 years have been just awful here. I have searched a bit on the internet the Ocala and surrounding areas. That will be part of our hunting tour in October as we will drive from here to Colorado. It does look lovely in Ocala and I love the tax situation in FL and it would be a much easier move. My concern there is the sinkholes, which I am trying to research some. There is a giant national forest near Ocala and the houses near there look rather rural so that will be checked out as well. I would really like 10 years away from people before old age forces a more communal living situation, lol.
says:
Anyone here have any experience or care to comment on Blacksburg VA? Because it's primarily a college town , it appeals as a way to keep my hand in the engineering game. The costs seems reasonable - most anything is reasonable than Long Island. I am particularly interested in the summer climate. It appears closer to mountains so humidity may not be as harsh as other parts of the state.
Thanks for all responses
Jeff says:
Alleyeski,
Check the NOAA site for the data you require.
Jeff
ella says:
Alleyeski,
Another good site is Sperlings Best Places to Live. Use the Climate tab. Check the other tabs too. Many useful. My best.
ella says:
Liz,
Thanks for your comment about the Money calculator; i truly appreciate your attempt to help. Unfortunately, that calculator only deals with large cities (i'm looking for small towns), and it doesn't take taxes into account. I'ts hard to get all the facts, but i'll keep trying and with people like you maybe i'll get there. Thanks again!
Jill Ryan says:
I may be getting my head handed to me here, but I'm going to take the chance. I have lived all my life in New England…half of that in VT - as has my partner of 32 years. We are legally married here. We come from the "liberal northeast". My concern, as a lesbian couple, is that we will not be able to make a new home in the NC/SC region due to regional prejudices. We have always lived in a rural area and enjoy that lifestyle. Our way of life has never been an issue. We don't want to have to move into a southern city in order to possibly find a diverse and accepting neighborhood…if there is one. Is it possible to live in rural NC/SC, or in a subdivision, and not face ostracism or even hostility from the folks there? The political climate one sees on TV points to a difficult , it not impossible transition to the area? We don't want to move south only to become pariahs. Your observations would be helpful in our decision making. Thank you...
LisaJ says:
Jill-have you thought about Chattanooga TN? It is a very nice town with accepting and open-minded people.
JoyceR says:
Rehoboth Beach, Delaware in south Delaware is known to be tolerant of gay people. I am heterosexual and have never been harassed by gay people there and they have higher proportion of Northern transplants there who try to bring cultural arts there through memberships, like Met opera performances at a movie theater. Go there for a weekend vacation and check it out for yourself. When I retire, south Delaware is where I need to go to escape the high taxes of Maryland.
Debra says:
Brevard NC is a warm and welcoming small town in Western NC. I'm guessing you might want to be a part of a community and not just tolerated. Asheville is larger, so maybe not what you are looking for.
alleyeski says:
ella,
Fantastic tip regarding Sperlin! I knew there had to be something other than NOAA for climate information as well as just about every other kind of criteria needed.
ann says:
Hi, Does anyone have any advice about moving to Asheville N.C? I have heard that it is a good place to live but expensive and that they do not like People from the North. ann
Jan Cullinane says:
Jill,
I've addressed LGBT communities on pages 150 - 153 of my book. Can't re-write it all here, but a few thoughts: Resort on Carefree Boulevard (www.resortoncb.com) in Fort Myers, FL. is a community of women. I know you mentioned NC/SC in your post, and this is in Florida, but it bills itself as "Southwest Florida's premier lesbian destination." Manufactured homes. Kathy H. wrote an anecdote in the book about moving there. And, check out this link: http://www.city-data.com/top2/c15.html. It's from City-data.com, and it ranks cities with populations of at least 5,000 by the largest number of self-reported unmarried female-female households. The assumption is that this would indicate lots of lesbian couples. And, agree with the comment about Rehoboth, Delaware. On the water, artsy, lots of good restaurants, but it is a tourist destination, so very crowded during the summer season.
Jan Cullinane, author the Single Woman's Guide to Retirement
Jill says:
Thanks for all the great information. It's greatly appreciated. Now I have some places to start looking. Any more suggestions will be greatly appreciated. You're a great group. One looks forward to retirement most of one's life never expecting it to be so fraught with issues and major life-changing decisions.
Sandra says:
I live in NC and I am not big on the South.......anywhere in the " Bilble Belt" is going to be difficult......interracial and gay relationships frowned upon........some places are not as bad as others........I have a friend who has a friend whose son is gay........he and his partner live in the Raleigh area and have had minor problems.......I think that is true of almost everywhere ......... they have good jobs and love the area........I have also heard that Asheville is good....artsy area ....expensive...but watch out for surrounding areas.......they are not so tolerant .......reach out to others like u have here and plan weekend in the area.........Best of luck to you.........
Barbara says:
Ann, I have both relatives and friends who live in Asheville. It is a good place for all different types of people. There is a university and lively arts and music scene. No need to worry about not being welcome as long as you are open-minded about differences.:-)
Elaine says:
Jill, Check out college towns and the college area of larger towns and cities. Some are tolerant and some are not...but it is much more transparent so you get a better handle on tolerance level more quickly.
Asheville is interesting, but expensive.
ann says:
Barbara, Thank you for the information on Asheville. That was helpful. Ann
Roseann says:
I really enjoy reading most of the comments. However I think some are getting of the original intent. As a "Yankee" I want to believe we can live and thrive any where we choose...as long as we keep an open mind. Ann, believe in who you are and what you stand for.....remember you cant please everyone so you must please your self.
I'm still looking for some great communities in North Carolina. My husband and are will be traveling back to SouthPort, NC in the next 4wks for another look. will keep everyone posted.
Jeff Gilfoy says:
As retired enlisted military I am looking for an area near a major university what do you think of Athens Ga and the cost of living???
Robert says:
Jeff - have an Old Air Buddy (retired Major) who lives in Columbia Ga - might want to check it out. Robert (USAF)
marsha says:
Jeff- Athens GA is very special. Lived there twice with my job. Many people who transfer there (including my NE friends) never leave if they can help it. Costs can vary by county. Always something interesting going on!
Anna says:
These are all wonderful suggestions, but I'm a horse lover!!! Has anyone retired in Kentucky near or in Louisville or Lexington? I've visited these areas on vacation. How are they to live there year round? Thanks! Two years to go and counting!
Alice says:
Speaking of retired military, can anyone offer any advice about retiring in Abilene, Texas near Dyess AFB? Thanks.
ella says:
Does anyone have any feedback regarding living in the mountains of Northern Georgia vs. the mountain towns of Western North Carolina or Eastern Tennessee? Culture, customs, climate, anything?
Many thanks?
ella says:
PS - Add cost.
Sandra says:
Leaving the south on a road trip soon, heading North........hoping to find a good place to move to in my retirement. I have to sell my townhouse before making the final move.......my biggest problem. Otherwise, I would be there already. I have a few places mapped out ....any and all suggestions between now and my departure? Would just like the names of nice places to live............I can research the rest..............I also know that this may sound ridiculous to some..but I just thought I'd give it a shot........the responses, if I get any, will give me some ideas I may not have.........thanks very much.
Craig says:
Does anyone have any insights on retiring to Santa Fe, NM and New Mexico in general? Wife and I are finally at that stage to move out of MI within the next year and that's where we've been targeting as we both like the proximity to mountains and her to all the art galleries. Thanks.
Jan says:
Ella - I would be very interested in the comments to your questions also. We are considering that area also but live in California. I'm from Alabama, relatives all through the SE. We love the mountains, lakes and outdoors and have visited Northern Georgia on several occasions and thoroughly enjoyed it.
Diane Sanfilippo says:
Ella -
While in college in the N. GA mountains (foothills of the Blue Ridge - Dahlonega) I fell I love with the mountains, and a cadet. After eloping we became active members of the 'civilian' community, joined the local Methodist Church, and my husband went to work (part-time) for Mr. Moore at Moore's General Store (now more trendy than practical as it was then). We were embraced by the community and the years there were some of the happiest in my life. We often just took off 'riding' since gas was very inexpensive in the early 60's and followed one winding road after another further and further into the mountains.
Georgia is a retirement friendly state - and you don't need to live in the nether regions of the mountains - say 'Blue Ridge, etc.' you will find almost anything you need or want... but medical is a bit of a risk the further you go into the mountains. I don't know you want to live a secluded life or one in an active 55+ community, but there are plenty of those around, most fairly expensive in the mountains. We are looking at E. Tennessee around Sevierville because of the close proximity to UT Medical Center but we are older than most of you on here and it is a real issue for us, particularly me since I have some 'odd' non-lethal medical problems that make finding a doctor difficult, particularly the specialties I need.
We have looked at Georgia, S.C. and Tennessee and have settled on the latter - and although I would LOVE to live in Dahlonega again (or the near area), it would not be fair to ask my husband who married m when I was a 23-yr-old widow (my first husband, and the love of my young life, died in service when just 24. So, to ask Dick to live where I was so very happy with someone else would not be fair and I have never given it a thought. Depending on your situation I think you would be happy anywhere in the Blue Ridge or Smokies.
Doug says:
Morning..does anyone have any info on the TOA Builders/Communities in Pa
SandyZ says:
Sandra - If you are determined to move north, the only state in the Northeast that is at all affordable is New Hampshire. Some pretty areas are Jackson, Franconia, Bethlehem - all in Northern NH, in or around White Mountains. Southern NH is beautiful, coastal, and expensive! Durham is a fabulous small college town, and Keene is also a nice college town. Make sure you love long, frigid, snowy winters though!
ella says:
Diane,
Thanks so much for your thoughtful comment. We want to live amongst nature and in the mountains as i don't handle the summer heat all that well. That said, my husband is 70+ years old so are trying to find a balance between a town with good roads close enough to a good medical facility and living in a beautiful setting.
Not sure about the 55 communities or living on our own. Have considered Blairsville, GA, but have been told it's 'touristy.' Will be checking it out, however. Others close by are prone to tornadoes as per the internet as are towns in TN near Chattanooga. Perhaps i'm being overly cautious.
I've researched many towns in NE TN. I prefer TN as the cost-of-living there is so good; however most are hot in the summer. I've considered Sevierville as it's so close to the Park, but was concerned it would be too touristy being so close to Gatlinburg, etc. Can you tell me a bit about it? I'm looking for a warm, friendly town that has some charm with a few things to do close by. Many thanks. All comments are welcome! Ella.
ann says:
Sandra, If you want to move North the very best towns are in Westchester county. It is right outside the city. It is very expensive but everything is so convenient and of course the health care is great. Try Mamaroneck or Larchmont N.Y. There is snow but the village does a great clean up. Out of the house the same day. Ann
Maggie says:
We are considering a small RV and traveling when we get the urge. Please, anyone who travels in this mode, post some of the good/bad/ugly of RV living. I grew up traveling, but it was as a child, so I did not pay attention to much other than keeping a bit of "space" and where the next ice cream shop would be. My husband did not enjoy this way of vacationing. He needs a bit of convincing. We live in CT, have a second home in the Monadnock region of NH. CT is a great state(it's home) with a lot of culture, beautiful areas, high taxes, more crime than I'd like. Take the good with the bad. NH is also a great place. Be careful where you live, research your town carefully, the quality of life is wonderful. We'd like to travel while we're young, early 60's, and have the time/funds/health.
Editors note: see our extensive series on the rv lifestyle
http://www.topretirements.com/tips/Adventurous_Retirements/Living_the_Mobile_Lifestyle_in_Retirement.html
MarkG says:
Sandra,
I live in West Hartford, CT and I grew up just north of boston. If you can afford it Amherst, MA area is a nice place to live there are five colleges in the area. From reading this blog you Connecticut is very expensive to live they have taxes on top of taxes and regular gas is over $4.00 a gallon in my community. Around hartford the Farmington Valley is nice and Madison along the coast. I also lived in Providence RI for fifteen years and my wife and I visit Providence often but again very expensive to live especially regarding taxes. We saved money when we relocated to Connecticut. Boston is great but look for a town on the 495 loop that has commuter rail service. Massachusetts is a better state to live in for retirees then CT or RI. The Berkshires is beautiful along with Saratoga, NY. I am told that NH is the place to be, no sales or income tax beut real estate taxes are very high and I heard they added a View Tax. If your property faces a mountain or the ocean taxes are higher. NH just raised the Gasoline tax.
Sandra says:
Thanks to all for the suggestions. My list is growing and I love it.
ella says:
Sandra,
I think you need to state what you're looking for before 'our' answers can be of any help. For example, Ann mentioned Westchester county which is two counties south of me (and one north of NYC) and is one of the most expensive counties in NYS. It is also fairly urban, traffic can be busy, people dress well and homes are kept beautifully, etc. Not enough open space for me (i avoid traveling there), but obviously Ann loves it. So that we don't steer you in the wrong direction, you need to let us know if you're looking for - rural, urban, cultural, laid-back, does traffic matter, hilly, flat country, etc. My best to you.
Dave C. says:
Wow.....this topic is a text-book case of a "hijacked" thread!
What started as, "can a Yankee find happiness in the south" has morphed into our standard, "let's compare cities, towns, economies, cost-of-living's, etc. etc. "
Maybe we exhausted the "Yankee replanted in the South" topic......but baby, it's long gone!!!!
Elizabeth S says:
Roseanne,
I love Southport, NY. I did not live there but just over the only bridge at the time, 2000, on Oak Island. We loved Oak Island, but moved back to NY after
my mother in law passed. Southport is ragther expensive, at lease for us, but I loved the Dry Street Pub for lunch, the beautiful Cape Fear River and all the ships going by, the Ft Fisher Ferry over to Carolina Beach, and all and then on to Wilmington. We hung out there a lot, but Oak Island has a wonderful Beaches, great small town feel, and it covered with those Live Oak Trees. It is a great place. A bit remote, but special.
Elizabeth in NY~
ella says:
Dave, you're right; but allow me a few websites for Sandra and then i'll leave the “hijacked thread" alone. We be pirates all!
Sandra,
You might want to take a look at the following websites before you decide where you want to travel to. Kiplinger compares the tax consequences of living in different states on the first one. You can choose any stat you want. On the second Kiplinger lists the 10 worst states to retire in. NY, CT, and VT are all listed (no surprise there!). The third (Sperlings) will give you lots of interesting info. on just about any place. Cost of living, climate, the way people vote, etc. Occasionally Sperling will tell me that it can't find a town. Then i fool it by just googling something like "annual sunny days in TownName, State and Sperling will take me right to it.
In comparing cost of living, 100 is the national average so anything above 100 is higher than and anything lower is ... well you get it. A good way to compare one town to another.
Hope this helps.
ella says:
Whoops, sorry. Here are the websites:
http://www.kiplinger.com/tool/retirement/T055-S001-state-by-state-guide-to-taxes-on-retirees/
http://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/retirement/T006-S001-10-least-tax-friendly-states-for-retirees/
http://www.bestplaces.net
Diane says:
Ella -
There is a quiet side to the Smokies - and wonderful mountain homes near good roads - Wears Valley - Townsend - Sevierville (is not in the 'tourist' mecca) which has a new hospital associated with the University system - and they are building a brand new VA hospital next door. You can be just 15 minutes from town and be 'alone' either 'in' the mountains (email me and I will tell you about the cabin we rented one Christmas).
I thought about Toccoa but have a friend who is the wife of a General officer who attended the same college I attended and she HATES it! Says that there is nothing there for any type of 'cultural' experience except mountain and bluegrass, and like me, she occasionally enjoys the classics. Which is another reason we are choosing Sevierville since with the university nearby there will be more variety and all the 'country' we can handle! The Christmas we were there, my daughter and I took a 'ladies night out' (she has two sons who stayed with Grampa), went out to dinner and saw Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat, which I had seen but she had not - and it was a very nice presentation, and was not crowded.
My suggestion is to rent for no less than 6 mos. and then make a decision. This will be our last move - I am 71 and my husband will be 76 next month, and we HAVE to be happy.
You can email me at dsanfilippo303@comcast.net
I also have a great realtor with a wonderful website that I will share with you - she has been SO patient with me for the last three years as we prepared our house for sale - it's on the market now so pray!
Oh, we found it MUCH cooler in Sevierville than our home in Virginia - the humidity is much lower, thus the main difference. I may have to soak in baby oil but it will be worth it!
Sandra says:
Ella....thanks for the websites.....I have always used Kiplingers and there are a few more out there but I like Kip. the best, so far........have not checked out Sperling's.......will check it out........and, it is just me, myself and I. I have done enough research to realize that a lot of this info that is done by these websites are based on a retired couple with a much bigger income than I have......sad to say. I can even consider some of the "worst" states to live in because of this........SOME not all..... parts of NY, VT, MA would be even be feasible....depends on a lot of different things. That's also why I didn't really state my preferences.....I'm flexible.....and can usually figure the place out when I reasearch it or talk to realtors in the area......the places people tell me about give me different perspective on the areas.
As far as this forum going off track, I'm from NY...the state.....not the city........there's a whole lot of NY out there besides the city......... been living in South for over 10 years........and I'm hoping I can get back North in my retirement. I've stated the reasons before, all based on my experiences and my opinions. So I am a Yankee ..... and I just think, IF possiblle, this Yankee would like to go home.
ella says:
Sandra,
I love your perspective. You've done your research and now you want to hear from the people. Good for you, you're a smart woman! I too, as i stated, am from NYS; however i am looking to go South. You didn't state, in specific, what it is you don't like about NC. Would you mind doing so (i don't want make you uncomfortable). I'm thinking of the mountains. Many thanks, e.
ella says:
Thanks so much, Diane! I will be contacting you!!!
Roseann says:
Elizabeth S. (NY) thanks for the Southport plug. I'm so on the fence...I here the crime rate is high. NC is changing it's take breaks for seniors..retirement funds etc. Have been reading and Google every question I can think of. I'm going back in August so we shall see.
Roseann says:
ella, thanks for the Kiplingers website. loved it. Sperling"s is good, but I need more in-depth information. I so wish I could go live in my top 3 picks for a month at a time then make a decision...If only I had lots and Lots of $$$
Roseann says:
Any info or insight into Pawleys Island SC...I hear it's a great town.
Alice says:
Roseann, "arrogantly shabby" is what they call themselves. If your pockets are deep and you want a 'funky' beach town, you will probably like it.
Leslie Blackmon says:
Hi, we've been looking at The Villages for sometime and have a friend that bought there and she loves it. We're planning on a trip this Fall to see if it's a good fit. With the house styles, education and recreational opportunities, it may be just what we've been looking for. Here's their website for anyone interested. http://www.thevillages.com/index.htm
Roseann says:
Alice, I did a little goggling to day on Pawleys Island..We do not have deep pockets.. Any advise on Little River?
Elaine says:
Roseann,
You mentioned NC is changing it's "tax" breaks for seniors. I do know they changed some things recently, do you have information more detailed info than this article and Kip tax by state info? http://www.forbes.com/sites/ashleaebeling/2013/07/16/three-new-tax-reasons-to-retire-to-north-carolina/ The changes seem to belie the article title. Living there keeps on more in the loop.
Dave C. says:
:shock::shock::shock: How about the site administrator stopping this thread, and starting a new one? All the latest inquiries and questions are interesting..... But had absolutely nothing to do with Yankees moving into the south.
If we continue in Top retirements, to allow our topics to be diluted and totally ignored, we will eventually lose the interest of our readers. If I see a headline, and open up the comments and find they have nothing to do with the topic, I will not continue to open the messages. That's how you lose readers. The latest comments on this thread are very interesting and potentially helpful, but they have nothing to do with the topic! If we continue to allow this disconnect we become our worst enemies and Topretirement's will shrivel up and disappear. :roll:
Editor's Note: Thanks for the feedback Dave. You are right, a lot of discussion gets off topic. Usually newer people who haven't looked around or had time to find a better place to ask their question. Our least favorite questions are "tell me about (name of city)". It is so open-ended and indicative that they haven't looked - we probably have tons of stuff already. We will try to do a better job of moving off-post comments to a better place.
Richard says:
Re: Pawleys Island, you can find great houses for 225K with HOAs under $100 per month. It's on the top of our list.
John H says:
Dave C - you are correct. Also, in general, everything here seems to be about the eastern half of the USA. Wish we had an "area specific" blog so I can skip those areas I have little interest in. Maybe there is but I haven't found it yet. Just saying.
Editor's note: There are several places on the site where western areas of the country are discussed. You can always use the Forum. In the Blog there have been several articles comparing various western states, such as http://www.topretirements.com/blog/great-towns/retirement-101-arizona-new-mexico-and-utah.html/
Larry says:
It would be helpful to all if folks defined their terms. For example, in reference to Pawleys Island, where I own a condo, what does "deep pockets" actually mean? Richard is correct; you can find great houses in the low $200s (and very nice condos beginning around the $100s), with a low tax rate. Pawleys is about to welcome its 5th supermarket within a few miles which is more than the area needs but will certainly keep down food prices via healthy competition. Pawleys also has the widest range of restaurants at all price points, and the beaches are free. Right now, I've seen green fees on excellent golf courses in the area of less than $20, cart included. So when we throw terms around like "deep pockets," it would be nice to have a frame of reference for what the author of the comment means. Sure, Pawleys may be more expensive than a town in the middle of nowhere, but it is a far sight cheaper than towns in more urbanized areas.
SandyZ says:
Sounds to me like the topic of Northerners finding happiness in the South has been talked about and talked about to exhaustion of the issue! Since things are swerving in other directions here, I suggest folks look to the right column for the appropriate article and topic to find your best advice and share your thoughts. Many of these articles have hundreds of comments about this place or that community..., probably what you are looking for is right there!
Sandra says:
Ella.....thanks....although I don't know how far it will get me!!!
I live in Central NC........ I really like the Raleigh-Durham-Cary area and if I could afford to live in and/or around there, I would.....but I can't seem to find any place that I can afford. The housing in that area is too high for me...I wish it wasn't because I would go there in a heartbeat!! It is a much more diversified area and because of RTP and Duke and the area as a whole...it is much friendlier than where I am. The main things I have a hard time with are the hypocrisy, racism and I don't like the terrible heat and humidity! I don't find it much cheaper living here. The A/C can cost as much as the heat.....at least it does for me.
I am also going to check out Asheville and the surrounding areas. Asheville is quite pricey but I have heard of areas around there that are more affordable. I have found it very, very hard to meet people with the same interests in this area where I am. I have joined several different organizations and such when I first moved here but to no avail. Maybe, I just picked the wrong place to live....!! As I have stated before, I think it is easier when you are a "couple" and not a "single". The organizations and/or places I tried to be a part of seemed to be uncomfortable with an uneven number........if you know what I mean. So....gosh, maybe it's nothing to do with me being a Yankee.....maybe it's just because I'm a single Yankee....!!!!! LOL
Elaine says:
I know Virginia has been mentioned...although not too often...I found this web site http://www.owl55.com/communities/ I do not know the realtor. She does provide a list of the active adult communities. For those Yankees like myself...if you are near enough to DC or along the 95 corridor you will probably be okay. I live in Fredericksburg VA and because folks commute to Quantico and DC (and Dalhgren) it is not very southern. Of course, any more north in Virginia is out of my price range.
I hope to find something in the Raleigh area, but it is not inexpensive either.
Elaine says:
For us Yankees (eapecially one like me who is not the rural type...is there anywhere in Georgia that folks have found their retirement haven?
Elaine says:
Sandra, I am also a single and find that urban is much more comfortable than rural, whether in the north or the south...but do I think the rural south is worse in this regard. Unfortunately, this also means more expensive places. I am trying hard to find retirement in the Raleigh/Durham area. I notice that you mentioned Asheville which I thought about...when visiting however, I found that the less expensive areas nearby seemed to have a very different feel and I did not think that I would feel as comfortable as a single. But if you find somewhere when exploring, let the list know.)
I actually loved living in Birmingham, AL...very cosmopolitan (probably because of the medical school), but HUMID, HUMID, HUMID. If that doesn't bother you look around that area on your exploration of the south.
Roseann says:
Larry, Thanks fort he PI-SC info. I have a friend who's sister & brother in-law have lived there for a few years now..in there late 70's -80's. My husband & I are in our 50's- 60's. I'm looking for lively neighborhood..lots to do and see.
Really not into the gated community..to many rules, regulations. Will be visiting the area in the next month & will do my best to get lot's and lots of info out to our readers.
Roseann says:
Elaine, No, I have not found any new info..Forbes is posting what I found in other articles. I for one do not want to end up living were every thing will end up being taxed.
Barbara says:
We lived in Ellijay, Georgia for over 11 years and while the area is beautiful, the cost of living in Georgia is a bit high.
I have found that Cleveland, Tennessee gives you the best of climate, beauty and cost of living while still being fairly close to convenience amenities. Plus there is no state tax. However most everything is taxed and the sales tax is equivalent to Georgia's. The drivers licenses and and other state regulated taxes are better in Tennessee. Best thing you can do is go on line and do the demographics. Good Luck.
sunlovingal says:
As far as Yankees living in the south, I just came back to Delaware from visiting my Sister in Sun City Hilton Head...everyone there was from the North. There is no 'discrimination" whatsoever there. It's a really nice place, but I am into a little more change of seasons and find my beach here in the Mid-Atlantic a better fit. Very humid summers that last quite awhile. :cool:
sunlovingal says:
Correction on above last line of comment..I meant, "Very hot humid summer's there in Hilton Head that last quite awhile" :cool:
ella says:
Hi Barbara,
You're the first to have left a comment on actually living in Northern Georgia. I've been interested in the area (Ellijay, Blairsville) for quite a while with plans to visit. Can you tell me about the area. Also, what is so expensive? More so than Tennessee? I read that for those over 65, the first $130,000 are exempt from state taxes so for me and my husband that is better than Tennessee's state tax policy. Any input would be so appreciated. Many thanks! ella.
Leslie Anne says:
Having always lived in the South and having many friends who have moved here from up north, I can tell you the one difference in those who have enjoyed the experience and those who have not is their ability to "go with the flow." If someone moves from another area and immediately tries to change things, telling us everything was so much better where they were, it doesn't win them many friends.
If you like it enough to move here, then take it like it is. That goes for moving in either direction.
P.S. Does anyone ever retire and move north?
John Smeton says:
This article makes some great points. For it to be a more gentle ease from culture shock , the southern coast; although, sophisticated southern culture, is more civilized than the rural country culture obviously. Moving to the city would help a lot as well, than moving to a rural area. I moved from Northeast Maryland (Mid atlantic) to NW Tennessee as a fourteen year old (dad got job transfer) and at an those already big changing teen years it was a total culture shock. The accent, way of life, and just a totally different culture, people in NE Tn werent used to having everything around (aquarium, science centers, planetarium, just a bunch of places to go and see) its all open country here and I had a situation adjusting.
Take it from my experience, if you living in mid atlantic on up (or even in a culture southern area, or big city area) going to a rural area is such a culture shock.
In summing this up Good article on easing into culture shock, dont go from a super populated area with everything around , to a slower paced, more close minded culture if you dont want to experience drastic culture shock. Ive made friends from here and Ive made friends that moved here from different cultures as well. In fact I just realized while writing this, a lot of my friends are not from this culture, Dallas, and around Baltimore, or people that have lived else where and travel.
This is from a culture shock perspective based on my experience and wherever one ends up one must still be positive, continually learning despite setbacks and failures, inspire others, courageous, compassionate, all those good characteristics. Going from a culture you dont like isnt a reason to complain or have a bad attitude, do your best and if you have the means to live where you want, then good for you
Jack D says:
Spot on article and observations. I was born in SC but grew up in Wilmington Delaware. I have lived in South Florida, Columbia SC, and more recently Charleston SC most of my life. I consider myself a northerner or Mid atlantic person but can tell you all about South Carolina as well. (Been here 19 years) If you are a Northerner or a Midwesterner or someone looking for a melting pot of people in a warm, sunny climate. There are only two areas to consider in the state of SC. The first one is Charleston, SC and the second one is Hilton head. The rest of SC tends to be very small minded and not extremely welcoming of "Yankees." Yes, the civil war does still exist in some minds. Charleston was voted the number one destination to visit in the WORLD and there is a reason for that. However, even within Charleston you have differences in people and attitudes. Coastal areas like Mt. Pleasant, Daniel Island and downtown are filled with Northern transplants and that is where the "money: buys. Summerville, Goose Creek, North Charleston is an overall middle to lower economic area, where you can buy a 3k sq foot NEW home for 225k. But the roads are more crowded there and overall area not as beautiful as the coastal sections of Charleston in my opinion. Although Columbia SC is the capital of SC..Fugheddaboutdit..the civil war still resonates and you will be told frequently about Sherman's march into the city where he proceeded to burn the town down! Myrtle Beach is not bad, but maybe a little too transient for my taste with the condos dotting the horizon and summer traffic is horrible. South Florida is great, but hurricane insurance is outrageous now and also maybe a little too transient of a feel for most. You sunglasses will steam up by April due to the overwhelming humidity. My home state of Delaware is a GREAT state. NO sales tax, good people but the winters are tough thru the month of March. I have spent many summers in New England and Vermont is a beautiful state filled with bucolic communities with the old timey general stores that take you back to another time. Would relocate to new England in a minute if not for the extreme, long winters and monstrous property taxes. Hope this helps. This is written by someone that has great experience in the North vs South relocation quandary! Love Charleston but the summers are also hard to take. They start in June and go through Sept and even much of October. Doesn't feel right handing out Halloween candy while swatting mosquitos. I may look into Asheville and or Charlottesville for retirement. Both great towns I have visited before, and I am sure they too, have their areas (suburbs) that would be right up my alley. Best of luck to everyone!
john v says:
jack D ..... very interesting article . since you spoke about SC, mostly negative, I am planning a
move to the UPSTATE of SC. I am talking about the Simpsonville area. you did not talk
about the upstate. been down there twice in march and oct, and felt right at home from people
that didn't know I was a visitor. compared to nyc attitude I thought I was in heaven .
can you share any thoughts on the UPSTATE SC . thanks .
Richard says:
Since I posted in 2014 that Pawley's Island was our retirement destination of choice, we visited and fell in love with Amelia Island, FL. We are focusing there for now and are looking to purchase land. We are fortunate to each have a pension which would not be taxed in FL but would be in SC.
Ginger says:
Jack D, great article. I just said to my sister as a Northener would SC be right for us, and wondered how are Northerners treated and do we fit in? We still have a small place at the Jersey shore and bought a house in new Tampa 10 yrs. ago where my younger sister has lived for 23 yrs. The problem bought before retirement and now the house is too big and not in a retirement community, so not enough to do. Now we are thinking of moving to the Carolinas, but we pay enough taxes now after homesteading in Fl. Now the question where to go. I guess after we find an area we like we have to ask our accountant the tax consequences.
BJ says:
Hello -- Been following this for awhile now. We are currently living in Twin Cities -- my husband from NY and me from PA/NY -- however, I lived in Knoxville, TN in my first marriage for 14 years.
We are late 50's and sooo wanting to setting in a warmer climate and though our family is still in northeast and we've looked at Delaware coast, I'm continually drawn to the south. I'm used to the southern culture but my husband is not although he likes it. I have fond memories of the south and people in the south even with the initial distrust of yankees because it doesn't last long if you keep persevering to be friendly and open. But I think we would like more of a mix of northerners and wonder what you all think of Savannah, St. Augustine, Jacksonville areas, also Bluffton, SC for a couple like us. We would like some city amenities of restaurants, shops and cafes.
I've read through entire thread here but would like a more updated opinion from a few years ago as these areas have continued to grow. Or would love any suggestions from you all about new places.
Thank you!
says:
I have lived in South Carolina, have a daughter who lives in Clemson, SC. Personally I like Georgetown, SC the best and Columbia, SC second. Columbia, SC has it all. Knoxville, TN is one of the top of places to retire but too big of a city for me. My son relocated there, to beat the high cost of medical insurance premiums. He is checking area's outside of the city limits to buy. Being from the North hasn't been an issue with either of my children who are in their thirties.
lindaf says:
DeyErmand...How long has your son been in Knoxville? We are thinking of checking it out for retirement. The mountains and the not so hot summer weather is a draw. Any areas he likes would be helpful. And a retirement community is not necessary for us. Thanks!
Larry says:
On Jan. 16, Jack D. wrote: "Although Columbia SC is the capital of SC..Fugheddaboutdit..the civil war still resonates and you will be told frequently about Sherman’s march into the city where he proceeded to burn the town down!" Jack and others may be surprised to learn that in the 2012 Presidential election, President Obama received 66% of the total vote in Richland County, which surrounds Columbia, in a state where he won only 44% of the total vote. No doubt, much of the Columbia vote had to do with the huge presence in town of the University of South Carolina. But whether or not you believe the vote was tilted by those dang liberal professors and their misguided students or because a university town is the logical home to better educated folks, the vote implies that the majority of Columbians are not re-litigating the Civil War.
says:
My son has been living in Knoxville about 6 months as a cable installer. He is looking for a home in the Oakridge area due to less of a crime rate there. He said Cost of living is comparable to Knoxville. Oakridge is part of Anderson County and part of Roane County, 22 miles northwest of Knoxville. Melton Hill Lake is part of the atmosphere with boating, canoeing, fishing, swimming, golfing, and billiards, plenty of things for his family to enjoy. There is a senior center called Echo Ridge a 55+ community that my son has mentioned to us, but it is in Knoxville, Knox county.
Gerard L says:
My wife and I have retired to Pawleys Island SC and have not encountered any of the negative attitudes that Jack D has expressed. I have lived in many areas and was raised in NYC. There are ignorant, small minded people everywhere. The sweeping generalizations expressed by Jack D are accurate from his perspective and world view but may be far from the reality of the experiences of people living there. My daughter moved to Tuscaloosa,AL for a job and she has made some of the strongest and warmest friendships of her career. So much for stereotyping people and geographic areas.
jeb says:
To DeyErmand
Have y;our son check out the environmental/health safety of living in the Oakridge area. There has been many, many cases of cancer, asthma,etc. over the years.. Lived in tn for 15 years and that's all we heard time and time again about the area. Pls check it out
DeyErmand says:
Thx Jeb, will do today. Best to be 50 miles away from anything like that!
Debbie says:
Dear DeyErmand,
You mentioned that you prefer the Georgetown SC area. Could you tell me why that is? Looking for a nice, warm area to retire close to the ocean. Wonder about huge home insurance costs also due to the proximity to the ocean. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you, Debbie
says:
Our daughter and family moved from Pittsburgh PA to Fort Mill SC (just over the border from Charlotte NC) over 8 years ago. Never experienced any "Yankee" snubbing whatsoever. Gorgeous area with wonderful warm friendly people. Young family area, which is most likely the reason.(.no old stereo type people with judgemental ways). Looking to join them soon to enjoy this lovely area of SC. Sorry the above poster found the south so 'uninviting" . We found it just the opposite. Also we have family in Atlanta GA and Bluffton SC...also moved from the North years ago due to job transfers. Never experienced any unwelcoming vibes. Life is what you make it. Love the South!
Richard says:
DeyErmand,
Good morning. My wife and I love Pawleys Island and Murrells Inlet but weren't impressed by Georgetown. What did we miss? It is less expensive than the areas farther north. We want to make sure that we consider all viable options. Take care.
DeyErmand says:
Debbie, I was a renter for 18 months, job location/detail. I found the utilities cheaper, the weather great. I liked the fishing and hiking and walking on the boardwalk, talking with the residents/shop owners. Plus lots of people from the north and south, all helpful with information on the area.
DeyErmand says:
Richard, All I can say is visiting is not the same as spending a summer or longer to determine if it is right for your situation. Maybe it doesn't take much to impress me. I do know I want a retirement life I can afford, around friendly folks.
Art Bonds says:
jeb and Dey, Oak Ridge, TN is home to Oak Ridge National Laboratory, don't know if that that something to do with it... environmental damage and all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_Ridge_National_Laboratory
DeyErmand says:
Thanks Artbonds, I appreciated the background information. Isotopes and Uranium cleanup was removed to Carlsbad, New Mexico landfill. Still knowing that, I will stick to the rule of thumb, 50 miles for 50 years, due to the groundwater.
Debbie says:
DeyErmand,
Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to my question. The information is greatly appreciated. I too am looking for a retirement I can afford and friendly people.
Best Regards! Debbie
Linda says:
@BJ: I have relocated from the Twin Cities to Cape Coral, Florida, and I love it here! I never fit in to the culture in Minnesota, not having been born and bred there. People in Minnesota seem to feel that they have made all the friends they will ever need by the time they are in kindergarten. Everybody here is from someplace else and they are all very friendly.
John D says:
Re. Oak Ridge & east TN. I'd rather live in Fargo North Dakota than spend one day longer than I have to in Oak Ridge and Knoxville Tennessee. With respect to Oak Ridge, it's a dying town with no future other than the National Laboratory. If you're smart you moved to Knox County because schools in Oak Ridge are declining job prospects unless you are very educated are minimal housing is terribly overpriced and poorly built and much of the stock is World War 2 vintage. It is run by the good old boy network, they think a great restaurant is Applebees, the east side of the county can't stand the west side of the county and if you have an ethnic name don't ever expect someone to pronounce it correctly. They'll just laugh and say that it's beyond them how to pronounce it. Only one decent grocery store, where they will check your ID when you buy a beer despite appearing to be 65 years or older and place your six pack of beer in a bag because of a city ordinance ,no mall unless you travel a half an hour to Knoxville, marginal healthcare for the few octogenarians still living there having died of some cancer due to nuclear waste...As to Knoxville, classless, tasteless, under educated, ostentatious wealth next to abject poverty. Auto insurance is very high because Tennesseans can't drive, every road is the Bristol Speedway, that stick on the left side of the steering wheel is for decoration, 70 mph is the new 45 even on arterial roads, if you're not a University of Tennessee football fan you are a pariah, Pizza on every street corner, not a decent Chinese restaurant to be found, southern hospitality my foot, friendly but not welcoming. Best thing about Knoxville and Oak Ridge? Seeing it from my rearview mirror. Best thing about Tennessee? The Welcome to Kentucky sign. Can't wait to get out of this hell hole.
Kate says:
SunLovingGal: I also moved from Pittsburgh to SC (Fort Mill, next to Rock Hill) for work. This part of SC and Charlotte NC is an area of relocated persons. It's rare to find someone with a southern accent. As you sit in traffic you'll spot stickers or license plate holders for every sports team around the country. And you WILL sit in traffic...plan on getting your brakes replaced twice as frequently due to stop and go traffic. It's definitely a very politically conservative area,and when you meet someone new eventually they will ask "What church do you go to?" I haven't found any unfriendliness, and there's sure a lot to do if you are looking for activities. Weather is nice, cost of living is lower (thanks primarily to low real estate taxes, but gas yesterday was $1.529 yesterday near my home), and the news this morning is about an ice storm coming on Fri-Sat instead of inches of snow. A plus is that the ocean and the mountains are each only a few hours away. Still, I probably won't retire here. I just don't like the constant traffic, don't have family here, and probably will head closer to a coastline.
Judy says:
Linda - every time you post something about Cape Coral, it sounds better to me. :)
Debbie says:
DeyErmand,
Was just reading about Georgetown and mentioned is a terrible smell from the mills and the water pollution as well. This was a 2010 article, have these issues been addressed?
Thank you again!
Debbie
DeyErmand says:
Thanks John D! You just confirmed my thoughts on my Kentucky choice. You get what you pay for sure rings true, more and more!
Norma P says:
LOL, JohnD. Sounds like what I thought of Memphis. I was so happy to leave to better pastures. I love the Nashville area, but not Memphis. We are heading to Florida once we retire. Looking at the Tampa area right now.
DeyErmand says:
Debbie, It has been awhile since I have been there, am planning a trip there late spring. I will
certainly check this new information out. Thx
Linda says:
Judy, Cape Coral was just rated #10 on Fortune's list of best places to retire. Come on down and check it out.
says:
Judy, Cape Coral was just ranked #10 on Fortune's list of best places to retire.
Art Bonds says:
LOL! Come on John D, tell us what you really think! And everybody knows Applebee's is not fine cuisine here in the South. That would be Chili's.
BJ says:
Thanks so much, Linda for your thoughts. I haven't read up on Cape Coral so now I will! And you are soooo right about Minnesota and Twin Cities. I've been here long time and time to go. We are transplants from east coast. I was raised in Philly, lived in NYC and my hubby is NY all the way. Twin Cities is a beautiful city however, how you described the attitude of the natives -- spot on. The south is friendly to me.
That being said, I chuckled at John D's rant about Oakridge/Knoxville. I lived there for many years in my first marriage as my ex worked in Oak Ridge at Lockheed. Much of what he says rings true to me although I think I liked it better than John -- lol. I would never move back there although the Smokies are quite spectacular. Living is cheap there too which is a plus. Knoxville definitely over Oakridge -- for sure.
Still asking about Savannah area -- if anyone has thoughts about this up and coming place for empty nesters. We both still work from our home. Want an active community. Florida seems to be the best answer thus far.
Thanks!
DeyErmand says:
Applebee's not a fine cuisine in the South??? My Sister in Law is manager of a southern one, and that place is always packed. I don't eat at Chili's nor have I bought beer for 30 years, among other things that are unhealthy. I like Nashville to Bowling Green when it comes to my budget and interest. I don't want to drive miles to save money on food, or to find excellent doctors. I have great memories of South Carolina and Norfolk and am looking forward to visiting the area in a few months. In life, I have found many unhappy people, due to the unemployment rate in their towns/areas across the north and the south. In retirement, everyone's income drops to 80% or less, so please research in person before you move and say "there is no place like home"!! Moving in retirement is not a permanent vacation, it is a transition with some culture shock.
Debbie says:
Thank you DeyErmand.
ella says:
Hey Art, Not Bojangles??? :)
LS says:
I too am a Yankee transplant living in Texas for the last 18 years due to job requirements. I think the key to making it work is to find a community with a lot of similar transplants. In my case, it was an upscale suburb full of corporate executives, professionals and airline pilots. I think you would also find such a mix of transplants in the big retirement areas or in specific retirement developments. Moving into these settings would provide you with a sense of not being a total outsider because many in the community would be like you in that they are there because of work or they seek like-minded souls in retirement.
Will I stay in Texas after we both retire? Probably not. Maybe we'll move to some other Southern state or out West. Since we have lived in Texas, I've seen the state politics become more and more crazy. For instance, a new law went into effect this month to allow open carry of side arms even in colleges, hospitals, bars and practically anywhere else where it is not specifically posted as prohibited. Very scary these want-to-be cowboys.
LouiseAgnes says:
Hello everyone,
I wanted to finally jump in after having read "top retirements" for a couple of years. I chose this particular blog BC like JEB, I also live in WestTN with my husband and we have experienced all the items others have posted. The war has not indeed ended. We came here 15 yrs ago from MI after visiting my brother in law and his family on a couple of Easter breaks , nice small town, 1 traffic light, we purchased 15 acres- something we could not have done in Oakland county,MI. OMG !!!
We have had enough and are relocating to SoCal in August. After visiting our daughter and son in law 2 years ago, we knew we needed to move there. My husband has since that time- been looking for and applying for jobs through his company in SoCal. AND FINALLY landed one, he moved at Christmas time and I will soon follow. Cannot wait- we had a very enjoyable time in SoCal and enjoyed "feeling alive", not dead on the front porch swing or waiting to die BC your small town governs what kind of business they let move into town . As Bubbajog said there must be a reason 38 million people live in California.We pay our taxes,we are good people and have a great work ethic-something sorely lacking here. We are only in our mid 50's and know the down side to actually retiring in California. We will have to wait and see, I currently work at a local university and see the generation coming up has the same crummy attitude towards "those people" who are not from here:; sad they have learned this attitude from the families.
As I sit here, having the day off work BC of 7" of snow, I will continue to pack my house and down size at the same time-our new apartment will not hold very much !
My advice for sure is to visit for a period of time before actually buying into the 'quaint small southern town" mentality.
Louise
Louise says:
John D. You cracked me up! LOL!
Where in KY is where you want to live?
I own 1/5 share in a tumbled down farm in KY. My Grandfather died at age 110 and left the farm to his 6 children. 3 out of the six have since died. Grandpa died in the year 2007 and the property was on the market for a while but the 'children' thought the property was worth a million dollars so they yanked it off the market thinking it would increase in value...fast forward 9 years later and it is still not sold 3 children have died AND now it is getting passed down to the grandkids. LOL, I am a 62 year old 'grandchild'. Oh, and the last three 'children' are 86, 90 and 92 years old. OMG! This is a huge can of worms. I would suggest to anyone NOT to leave your property to your children in this way. The Will should be specific that the property should be sold ASAP and money distributed among the children unless one or more want to buy the others out. Now my cousin is trying to deal with this. Plus, the three children all have some form of dementia or Alzheimer's and are very argumentative about selling the property. This is a nightmare.
Art Bonds says:
ella, Bojangles is the haute cuisine couture of Southern food. Definitely a step above the fine cuisine of Chili's. ;)
Louise says:
Haute cuisine is not only down South but up north too! One time Hub went to Maine to go fishing with a bunch of guys. The first night they were up there they went round and round where they would eat dinner. Hub fantasized that they would eat at an authentic seafood restaurant where they could order fresh caught fish/lobster/clams from the shores of Maine. Well, his 'buddies' had other ideas...they wanted to go to Red Lobster! Hub was mad but went there and was totally disappointed to eat at this McDonalds of the seafood world. Unreal, to be in Maine where some of the best seafood comes from and to eat at Red Lobster!
Haha, Red Lobster is such a funny place! My girlfriend and I went there one day for lunch in CT. She is very picky and doesn't like this and that and wanted to substitute one thing on the entree she wanted for something else. Well, you would think this was unheard of and never in the history of the world has this ever been done! I can't remember now what they subbed but they can't change anything on the register to accommodate substitutions to reflect a price change. The waitress was having a hissy fit!
Doc Stickel says:
I moved to a small southern town from suburban NJ. I have read on this site some less than successful transitions. At the intro to this topic, the question was posed: what do you bring to the party?.VERY good point. Being here 5 years now, sure-we heard often "you're not from here, are you?. My town, here in SW Virginia, is peopled with folks with very deep roots. However, I knew coming here, that this was their neighborhood , and it was not my mission to change that. As I motored about today, after the storm, I saw nothing but friendly neighbors helping neighbors. Nobody had that time or interest back in NJ. I have involved myself with " public service" type part time work, in concert with volunteer activities. It has been, in my experience, nothing but a positive experience. At no time have I considered moving back to the Northeast. We have found that life is what you make it. We have integrated and adapted to this way of life, which is mandatory when making radical change. One must adapt, I feel, to have happiness. The responsibility is on you-not your new surroundings!
Nancy Terry says:
I used to enjoy Top Retirements and look forward to reading about new places. This topic has changed my mind. I don't understand the "beat up the South" attitude. Constructive opinions are good and welcome, but many of the posts here are just not nice. Depicting Southerners as Bible-thumping, unable to drive with any sense, Confederate soldier outfitted ignorant rednecks is pitiful. EVERY PART OF THE COUNTRY has a unique blend of people, and you take the wonderful along with the weird and appreciate and be nice to them all. We in the South are as wonderful, friendly, compassionate and considerate as Northerners, Mid-westerners and Westerners. And, yes, church is a natural part of who many of us are. We work hard, raise our children to be polite, and we go to church.
Don't expect us to be anything other than who we are, and if that's not to your liking pick another part of this wonderful country. But don't move here and criticize our Southern culture. Please.
To those who have been gracious in their comments...THANKS!
A 68 year old native resident of the South who has many friends who have moved here from other parts of the country,
Nancy
Larry says:
Doc Stickel offers good advice, and it recalls for me a sit down one evening with a couple that ran a B&B in rural NC where I was staying. The lady of the house, who had lived in her town almost all her life, praised the "Yankees" from a nearby golf community for volunteering with local charities soon after moving to the area. "We love it," she said of her and her fellow townspeople's feelings toward the charitable newcomers. Then she added the proverbial "but." I asked "What?" She responded that, within a few months, these volunteers from the North thought they should be running the local organizations...I work with customers who want to relocate to the South, and I always chuckle when I am asked "How do we know the people in the community will like us?" My response is typically, "How do they know they will like you?" The fact is that, inside the gates of most of the communities I have visited and written about (200+), people are from somewhere else and are generally friendly and welcoming because, well, they remember how it was when they moved there. Come with an open mind and a non-judgmental attitude and the folks in your community and most of the local townspeople will welcome you. However, you will run into the occasional local person -- okay, maybe more than occasional -- who exhibits a kind of intolerance that is hard to accept, even on the grounds that it is their home territory. And it is even harder to accept when they wear their religion on their sleeves, go to church religiously (pardon the pun) and then betray antipathy toward some segments of the population. But my advice, which the good Doc will probably agree with, is to turn the other cheek, no matter how hypocritical a few of your neighbors may seem. You won't change their minds, and they won't change yours.
Elaine C. says:
Very interesting discussion, she says as she enjoys the lovely warm Tucson weather and packs up for Arkansas. Southern haute cuisine is not just about chain restaurants (although I do have my fave, and it's not Chili's or Applebee's - my late aunt's favorite). These restaurants do big business in the West too. I am always looking for the hole-in-the-wall cafe (dive?) that cooks excellent local meals, or once or twice a year I go to eat what a local chef produces.
I suggest that anyone who is interested in moving to the South should pick up a copy of the latest Garden & Gun magazine. Although the writing focuses on the "new" South, it also gives insight in what is very important to many Southerners. Garden & Gun is not fluffy, but offers substantive articles about the culture, history, food, music, art, up-and-coming folks that will rattle and roll into this new century, design, hunting dogs, and more. It is aimed at the well-heeled, but also informative and interesting to me, who resoles and reheels her very nice shoes to keep them going further in life.
Bob says:
I have spent several winters across the south from Florida to Texas. As other people pointed out, rent first! If you take a vacation during January to escape the cold of a northern winter you may think it is great, until you experience the heat, humidity, bugs, hurricanes and tornadoes during the summer! Again, as others have pointed out, your best bet is to find a community of other retirees.. While I have found the locals friendly when only dealing with things like shopping the big sticking point is religion in many of the smaller towns. The Bible Belt thing. "See you in church Sunday, right?" No, never. I don't believe. Oops, now you are not from their tribe. Also a problem with finding a fit in volunteering as so many of them are through church organizations. I've even had to put up with a talk about Christ and getting handouts when buying honey from a roadside stand. While I don't care of other people are believers I have found believers to be intolerant of those of us who don't, even having many ask me " How can you not believe?" Easy really LOL!
I have traveled the world and have never found a place I really like year round for climate. That is why the rich have homes in many places so they can be there at the best time. So I guess I will remain a snowbird spending winters and summers in different places.
doc stickel says:
Larry, thanks for your comments. As they say-minds are like parachutes. They work best when they are open. As you mentioned, there are people(everywhere) who are just rock-ribbed in their thoughts and actions. Have we met some down here? Sure. But, as you mention, the world still goes on. You do your best to find common ground, and common interest, and try to build on that. Best you can do. I didn't have to move to find those people. They also inhabited my home in Morris County, NJ., and I have folks and friends on the internet from around the country that send me many opinions I certainly do not agree with. That's life. What we did encounter down here, are people for the most part, that are more genuine, and when they ask you "how ya doing", they stop-because they really want to know. Perhaps things are not as rushed down here, and folks have more time for each other. As you and I said, it's what you make it! Thanks for the reply, Doc
Debra says:
Exactly Nancy Terry! We are not all religious. We don't all consider BoJangles Haute Cusine. No wonder some Northerners have a hard time fitting in. Surely you know better than to make fun of people and surely you have better manners, right? Is this the same post where we were called rednecks?
Sandie says:
If you're not happy where you are not, chances are moving will not change that.
Growing up protestant in a very catholic town on Long Island, I was used to not being "of their tribe" early in life. I've lived in central Virginia for 31 years and it has changed very much in that time, In general, and there are always exceptions, the attitude around here seems to be "if you don't do whatever it is you do in the middle of the road and scare the horses, we don't care."
Too many Yankees move here, though, and try to tell everyone how great things are up north. The locals are too polite to point out that I95 runs both ways, sometimes, I'm not.
ella says:
I think too many people reading this blog are too serious. I mentioned Bo Jangles in relation to Chili's just for the fun of it. I don't dine in places considered high class; and i really like Chili's! I enjoy a sense of humor, and respond to posts i find fun. Lighten up people!
As for acclimating to the South, i can't wait to be surrounded by mountain music and the existing culture. Regarding the Bible, i do read it and BELIEVE it! Try living in the North with my views, Bob. You'll find it's just as common to be mocked and belittled, as you find it difficult being intruded upon in the South.
Alice says:
I don't understand what is so offensive about being asked what church you go to. It seems to me that in this day and age one should be flattered that anyone cares about the state of your soul. But beware, the question is not always posed altruistically. My mother used to use the line on every woman who moved into her neighborhood as a way of determining that family's social-economic status. It might not be that different from two Yankees meeting for the first time and asking what school they went to. Both questions are designed to make you reveal information about yourself, and help the person asking decide whether or not they want to pursue a friendship. So lighten up! Somebody's actually interested in getting to know you better.
Louise says:
It doesn't matter where you move, when you are an outsider you will always stand out of the crowd. My Mom was from Kentucky, married a Yankee and moved to New York City. She was only 18 years old and mastered the Subway, put a taxi cab driver in his place when he complained she didn't tip him enough and grabbed the tip away from him and told him he wouldn't get any. Parents eventually moved to CT and years down the road she became a Factory Supervisor. One day she had her workers gathered around and was giving them some information. One of the male workers shouted out for her to 'get the mush out of her mouth (Southern accent)'. She retorted something to put him in his place. It is a struggle to move away from your roots. I think how strong she was being a Southern gal in a Yankee world.
Stacey says:
Funny story. My brother and his wife moved to TX. Our last name is very "generic". Can't be pigeon holed. My sis in law is from Spain. She is blond and green eyed, not most people's idea of a spaniard. She's also Catholic My bro Is Jewish. Anyway a minister rings her doorbell to welcome her to the neighborhood. He kept mentioning his baptist church and how he would love to see her and her family there. My sis in law gave a few non commital answers. She was raised to respect clergy. Finally he just came out and asked her what religion she and her husband was. She told him. He said nice meeting you and turned on his heel and walked.
I think that is how us northerners view the south. Not everyone is Christian, religious etc. someone asking me what church I go to would make me uncomfortable. Would that stop me from moving south and being friendly and open? Absolutely not.
SandyZ says:
Hmmm...let's start a list of acceptable conversation starters (having just moved to SC in the past few months, I've heard a few both good and bad(:
What brought you to SC?
What kinds of activities are you interested in doing?
Have you ventured out into the surrounding areas?
So far, the people we have met have been lovely, welcoming, and polite, but we do live in a community of mostly retirees from everywhere! The "locals" in town, and the contractors who we are dealing with, have also been great - we are guests in their "home" and we keep that in mind.
Admin says:
Ok folks, this conversation is veering into ground that has been plowed before. Lets return to your own experiences relating to specific locations, and leave religion and politics out of it - those subjects have pretty well been covered. We deleted a few posts that don't seem to help move the conversation ahead. Note our new post today that continues the conversation, http://www.topretirements.com/blog/great-towns/can-a-northerner-find-retirement-happiness-in-the-south-part-2.html/
Joann says:
Stacey - I have to agree with you about feeling of being uncomfortable. Sad how the minister responded instead of simply welcoming your SIL to the neighborhood. Does it really matter what religion or school someone attends to "pass" being accepted?
Art Bonds says:
My grandparents and dad were from Little Rock, Arkansas, and they moved to California in 1949 before I was born. Mom was CA native. Was raised Southern style from the age of 5 living with them and my dad after dad and mom divorced. Every Sunday was fried chicken, corn bread, black eyed and pinto beans, fried okra, sweet tea so thick you couldn't see through it. Sir or Ma'am always. You get the idea, a Southern raised gentleman in California, a hybrid so to speak.
Lived all over the US since then, CA, WA, AZ, TN, NE, FL, with stints overseas in service to my country (an obligation for every American, IMO). Conducted long term business in a dozen other states. Each area has a certain 'flavor' to it, and you have to learn to blend in wherever you go. Get to know the people. Most people are warm and accepting once you show that your are warm and accepting too. Even New Yorkers, who can be good at maintaining a hard exterior shell.
But I still consider myself 'Southern' in heritage and upbringing, and now live in TN. And I feel I can make fun of myself and my upbringing. Like ella the Bojangles quip was me making fun of me, my heritage and our stereotypes. And if you cannot make fun of yourself then there are parts of the anatomy that are probably a little too tight. After all, can't really make fun of others too much these days, so there is only 3 people I can make fun of... me, myself and I. And Bojangles does have some good chicken and biscuits, but not as good as grandma's! ;)
One thing my Southern dad and grandparents did NOT do was indoctrinate me in their religion. They wanted me to find the best way for me. The big difference between the South and other areas I have lived is that people here in the Bible Belt wear their religion on their sleeve and take it more seriously, more outspoken than in other areas. Others just keep it closer to the chest, but they are no more incredulous in their reaction to other-believers (believers in other religious or none at all) than any other state I've lived in, so it does not bother me.
It has been said that in polite company you don't mention either religion or politics. Both can be toxic. I believe a Yankee can live anywhere in the US with ease, including the South if they can find and mix with polite people AND be polite themselves. As SandyZ said so well, keep it neutral on all sides and everybody can coexist just fine.
Alice says:
I appreciate your sentiments Admin and as this is your blog you are certainly entitled to edit out any comments that you may find offensive or steer the conversation in another direction. However, I think you are doing a disservice to anyone contemplating a move from the north to the south if you ignore the fact that religion and politics often play a big part in many southerner's lives (especially seniors who have time on their hands), and that our beliefs are likely to be in the opposite direction of what they are up north. The information may prevent some from making a move they will soon regret, or prepare others for what they are likely to encounter after their move--especially if they are not planning on moving to a 55 plus community with mostly other transplants like themselves.
Art Bonds says:
Admin. "Lets return to your own experiences relating to specific locations, and leave religion and politics out of it." You cannot discuss a location without addressing the two large elephants in the room. You must address all aspects of a location. It is like mentioning that a certain area is warm, plenty of sand and a rich cultural background but leave out the fact that ISIS controls the territory because you want to leave religion and politics out of it. We don't want anybody to buy into an area without knowing all the pertinent facts, permeations and how to mitigate for them. Anything else paints a pollyannish picture and is a disservice to the readership.
JMO, but if you want to censor the site it's certainly yours to do so. And please delete this comment, it ads little to the conversation.
Dave says:
Wow, getting interesting. I'd like to put in my two cents if I may. First off, I can see admin deleting posts if you have kids posting things like"hey all you old @&$&@@$s I hope you die, or whatever. I also agree with some moderation when people posts things that make Southerners sound like they are all ignorant or that all Northerners sound bossy and know-it-all! Personally,
I also take offense the the word Yankee in the title. Should the Northerners then call the Southerners "Johnny Rebs" or something in response? No! But as Alice and Art have stated, you cannot leave out religion and politics and have an honest discussion. I have lived in both the north and south and though I can wear my big boy britches and act appropriately around others, I do have certain friends from the north should NEVER try to live in the south and that certain friends from the south should remain there. I also know people in both areas that are rude and uninviting regardless. So let's keep it as it is and only moderate out what truly doesn't belong in an honest discussion.
Larry says:
Dave, I too think Admin made a rare mistake in shutting off dialogue. Regional differences are important considerations when one contemplates relocation, and if folks will care that much about your religion, it is helpful to be warned ahead of time. Since I joined the debate on this point and my comment was vaporized, of course I think Admin jumped the gun. Perhaps the current political campaign environment has made them overly sensitive, but it is the hand we all have been dealt. People on either side of the "aisle" would be well served knowing what awaits them in certain communities.
Kate says:
Agree with others that Admin shouldn't shut off a respectful dialogue about religion and politics in potential retirement destinations. These can be significant factors to someone's choice. Ideally we are all pay attention to politics, and exercise our right to vote. Shouldn't someone who is committed to conservatism know about the potential for isolation if moving to an area that is liberal, or vice versa? Likewise, shouldn't someone know if an area's social life and volunteer opportunities are church-based? This information can be as important to personal retirement decisions as whether communities have movie theatres and libraries. (Tongue in cheek, my local library in SC stocks a lot of Christian fiction. I had never encountered the genre of "Christian romances" in my library in PA . And try finding a book written by or written about the Clintons in my local library! Won't happen.) As long as we are being polite and acknowlege that smart people can agree to differ, the information being provided is helpful.
godsgirl says:
If we can't reflect on our personal experiences, why are we here? My post from yesterday morning is nowhere to be found, and I don't think is was disparaging in any way.
If the truth can't be told, I better not waste my time typing.
Art Bonds says:
godsgirl, I thought your post was just fine. I figure a few more censored posts and we will all be gone. Why bother trying to help.
Louise says:
I had also posted an article (Link) about the state of affairs of how mismanaged our financial situation is in CT; the State I live in. I didn't write the article and it was in the regular and online newspapers for all to read but Admin deleted the link. People might want to learn about the State they are considering to move to and its financial situation.
Agreed Art Bonds, I think we are all adults here. I have enjoyed the candid remarks. If it is all boiled down to what is pretty and no ugly then what is the point? Might as well just tell everyone that every place is great and just move there and find out yourself.
godsgirl says:
Not everyone is bothered by neglected animals. Some of us are. My comments are for those who are to keep their eyes open. We didn't, and we paid the price. We all must decide what is right for ourselves, weight the positives and negatives. We shouldn't hide either.
Southern folks are wonderful people in general. Some of us can't adjust to some aspects of southern living. That is all.
Many wouldn't want to live in northern/western/eastern parts of the country for their own reasons. Let us discuss what experience led us to that conclusion as well. No one area suits everyone.
If we are here to exchange only niceties about regions, then please cancel my account.
That won't change the truth about my experiences. Its just that others may find out on their own or may have different experiences.
Have a wonderful day.
Joann says:
godsgirl - your comment about neglected animals is a MAJOR red flag for us. I'll go back to review posts to see what state/location you were referring too. These are experiences which should be shared and not hidden so we can make our decisions.
Debbie says:
Dear Admin,
I completely agree with you about keeping the conversation about different locations for retirement. There are other blogs to discuss religion and politics if one feels compelled to do so. I know I can't be the only one that grows weary of the "other" discussions, I don't care to read it here. This is a forum for finding out vital information about locations we know nothing about but are considering retiring to. A place to find information about climate, cost of living, economy etc.. I've found this site to be invaluable and am very grateful for all the information given here. I appreciate everyone who contributes.
Thank you for creating this site for the purpose of first hand information and personal experiences on locations visited or residing in for the purpose of an informed retirement.
Sincerely....Debbie
sunlovingal says:
Kate: Read you response and agree about the traffic, LOL, we visit the area all the time as our Daughter and Family live there. We are use to traffic as we live in a resort coastal area. Lots of Traffic anywhere in a place that is sought after I guess. Being retired we can choose the best times to go places. Fort Mill is a great area as you said ,with so much to do and great weather. Love that Charlotte is so close for Culture and Upscale shopping and dining. Our family is settled there and we are looking forward to joining them within the year. Can't wait! Been enjoying the beach life for 9 years now..(we retired at 55) and are ready for the next exciting chapter in our lives. Good luck in your Coastal retirement you seek in the future. :-)
techieliz says:
Good morning. I am a newcomer to this listserv, and have been following daily updates for the past couple of months. I read yesterday's aforementioned posts and found nothing egregious about them. People are entitled to their opinions, and as long as they are not disparaging or defamatory in nature, let them be!! I AM a Yankee girl and AM interested in ALL sides of the story! I also am strongly considering retiring to the south, and appreciateany and all information you all are providing.
My hope is that the moderator of this listserv will address our valid concerns.
Admin says:
We are sorry that some people feel they are being censored. In regards to posts being deleted or censored Art Bonds suggested that we "state specific guidelines for posts so we know what is expected"... and (have) a commitment to leave posts alone unless genuinely offensive."
Fair enough. We dislike deleting posts, and almost never censor. It is either in or out, we don't want to be responsible for making editorial decisions about what stays. This is from our Site Rules section on the site: http://www.topretirements.com/SiteRules.html (there is a lot more there too):
"Remember that the words you see on the screen were put there by other human beings. These people have feelings too. Read your message before you submit it to make sure you're polite, considerate, and kind. Don't generalize about people or groups of people - treat folks as individuals. If you can't be civil, we will delete or edit your post. The Topretirements.com community is a chance to connect with other people and to share important experiences. Always remember to be respectful and sensitive to other community members."
So what is not "polite, considerate and kind"?
- Making negative comments about other people's religions or politics
- Stereotyping groups, for example: Southerners mistreat their animals, northerners are unfriendly, etc.
Our goal here is to be helpful, informative, civil, and supportive. It is not to be anything like talk radio or cable TV where people shout at each other and cannot avoid having the last word.
Hope this helps. We appreciate everyone's comments here and look forward to more!
Art Bonds says:
Admin, thank you for that. I would just like to add something if I may. It's kind of what I do to avoid suffering the wrath.
There are ways to get my point across using prudent language. For instance I would say that "The Villages largely consist of conservative Republicans, Mr. Moore donates to conservative candidates and lets them speak at rallies inside The Villages". While it touches on politics those are actually well known facts, well publicized, is not negatively put nor is stereotyping, and it tells folks looking to retire there the lay of the land. They now know The Villages is not liberal by any stretch of the imagination. Now if you add "... and most have there heads up their..." it makes it negative and fair game for Mr. Admin's hook.
I think it would also be acceptable to Mr. Admin if you said that the local library has Christian fiction along with science fiction and self help books, but left out the complaint about not liking your tax dollars to pay for them.
It's not what you say, it's how you say it. Is that a fair assessment Mr. Admin? Or do you want to use this post as a teaching moment on what not to say?
From Admin: Nicely put Art. The way you phrase it is perfectly acceptable. As for the comments about Yankees, I can see how some people might take offense, although I don't. For the record, it has a long history of being a negative nickname. There is at least one theory (from H.L. Menken) that the term originated as a derogatory term used by the English settlers to describe a Dutch settler in America. As in, here comes a Jan (John) Cheese, thus making fun of the Dutch love for cheese.
And now, back to how people from the north (or anywhere) have found their retirement in the South.
susan says:
"Can a Yankee Find Retirement Happiness in the South?" The title of this thread lends itself to negative statements. One would ask: Is there something wrong with the people in the South? Can Yankees only be happy around certain types of people? The title has negative connotations toward people from the north and south.
Art Bonds says:
susan, you make a good point. The term Yankee can be used as a derisive term for someone generally North of the Mason Dixon line. Should the original post have been deleted for painting folks with a broad negative brush? Who titled the original article that way? That is probably why the title of Part Two has Northerner instead of Yankee.
Now here is further food for thought. If the Washington Redskins name is derogatory to Native Americans, then isn't the New York Yankees derogatory to all Northerners?
I'd better shut up now, probably treading too close to an imaginary line... ;)
elaine says:
Enjoying the discussion. Having lived in both the north and the south, I like "both better". The discussion reminds me of the good stuff in each place. I liked everywhere that I've lived except Wilmington, NC...but loved Chapel Hill, NC. Found that being single was more of a problem than anything mentioned here. So find where you are comfortable. I have found that my "ideal" place (which of course doesn't exist) has changed over the years, but mostly a reflection of my changing interests. If you had asked me in my late 30s, it would have retired to a ski area. But I still like being outside...just a warmer outside.
PS. Art, you are in trouble now! Its over the line! We will have to send all of us except Native Americans and Washington Redskins back "home". Where will they send me?
elaine says:
PPS. Does anyone consider FL "THE SOUTH?
Richard says:
My wife and I have looked at most of the coastal area from Wilmington, NC to New Smyrna Beach, FL for retirement over the past 8 years. For us, Amelia Island in #1, Ormond Beach, FL # 2 and Pawley's Island, SC # 3. With our retirement income, FL's lack of an income tax is a big consideration. Having spent a good deal of my career having responsibility for 7 facilities east of the Mississippi,I can tell you that if you treat individuals as you would want to be treated FIRST,and not wait to see how they treat you, you will not be disappointed and you will be happy and accepted wherever you live. Take care and be well.
Linda says:
PPS. Does anyone consider FL “THE SOUTH?
Good question. In my own little condo association in Florida we have people from Ontario, Nova Scotia, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Tennessee, Wisconsin, Connecticut, Georgia, Michigan, and Illinois. Not very southern. But we all have a good time together. What we have in common is that we all came here seeking warmth and the water.
ella says:
Thanks, Art, for your remark, "It's not what you say, it's how you say it." However, i would add that when a disrespectful comment is made, there is usually a disrespectful attitude backing it up. That said, i think we all need to be a little thicker skinned. There's enough in life to contend with than being continually offended.
Bubbajog says:
This blog makes me very happy that I live in Southern California.
Art Bonds says:
Bubbajog, I was vacationing last year, making a trip visiting family and friends. My aunt and cousins are in the Central San Joaquin Valley. As I was driving through AZ I called my cousin and told her I was bringing a gift, a gift more valuable than gold itself. When she asked what it was I told her... A gallon of water. ;)
susan says:
I got out a map. My map shows that Florida is one of the furthest SOUTH states in our country.
.
Jim C says:
In South Florida they say "you have to go north to see the south".
Pam says:
Jim C you are so right, Orlando south is definitely not the "South". Great mix of people however and everyone is welcome,
elaine says:
Susan, it is pretty far south, but I do not consider it "THE SOUTH".
Art Bonds says:
Florida has the 5th highest average age of all states at 41 years, only New Hampshire and West Virginia (at 41.5), Vermont (42) and Maine (43.2) are higher. Lots of seniors from other places moving to Florida, making Florida so diverse. Even this blog says so!
So, regarding "The South", just my opinion here... Just north of Gainesville (a university town) I'd draw a horizontal East-West line. Most everyone north of the line is from 'The South', and most everybody south of the line is from 'The North'. ;)
ella says:
Bubbajog, Pleased to be outside the drama?
Bubbajog says:
Yes Ella, all in good fun. Thank you Art for that gallon of water. And thank you EL NINO for refilling California's GOLDEN POND.
SandySWest says:
You are not alone, Bubbajog. My spouse and I moved from PA to NM (12 years) and southern CA (34 years). Our official home is CA, but we split the time with NM and take time off for short PA visits. Never knew such in-depth North/South discussions went on until I read this web-site. Fiddly Dee ( or however you spell it), it makes my head spin. Glad to be an Outsider in such discussions.
susan says:
SandySWest,
I can tell you are the type of person I would want to spend time with. You would be capable of enjoying spending time with people regardless of what part of the country they live in. I find this whole discussion a sad commentary on people that couldn't find pleasure in spending time with people who aren't just like them. Like you, we live in both the north and the south depending on the season. We enjoy the culture and people in both areas equally. We are very thankful for our very diverse way of life.
We travel a lot. Will drive over to Albuquerque/Santa Fe in April. Love the culture and diversity there.
We were in China in September. The people there have a very difficult life and wouldn't dream of having a conversation as ridiculous as whether or not someone from the north could be happy in the south. We Americans are so blessed. We should be thankful and happy.
susan says:
One last thought...... If you go to Cambodia, Zimbabwe and other places some of those people seem happier than some of us and those people have a right to complain.
SandySWest says:
Well said, Susan. After 69 years on this earth, I still can't understand the joy in knowing people "just like you". What's the fun in exploring if you only find yourself. I do have to thank this site and contributors, however, for the names of many interesting places to visit all over this great country. Let's never stop searching, exploring, and traveling on.....
Janna says:
This is my first post ever here, though I've been a *lurker* here for several years. I almost always find this blog helpful and informative, and in general, filled with good insights and humor. For informational purposes and some perspective, I'll mention that hubby and I are 63 and also searching for the elusive, *perfect* (yes, I know that doesn't exist, hahaha) retirement spot. We are from the South Shore of MA, are liberal socially and rather conservative fiscally; true Independents. We are not religious in a traditional sense though have no quarrel with those who are. Our motto is "Live and Let Live."
I must say today's thread was filled with more ...er...*drama* than I've typically found here, but, I also found it useful because it made me sadly realize that perhaps as a nation, we've really not come as far as I had hoped in a cultural sense. As such, we will most likely concentrate on Florida for relocation because I see FL as a *melting pot* without a particular culture where one may not be a good fit.
We've visited much of FL in the past and are planning a trip to Amelia Island, St. Augustine and the Ormond Beach area in May.
Cyndi says:
Great blog and thanks everyone for these comments. We just sold a home and business in NH and have rented a condo in North Myrtle Beach till April 01 when we have to find a more permanent place. Having taken the advice from many blog posts here we plan to rent something to see if we like the area. Any comments on places/neighborhoods in this area? Thanks.
Valerie says:
People are people wherever you go, so it really doesn't matter which part of the country that you go to IMHO, and you're going to find people whom you like and connect with, and people whom you don't like and won't ever connect with, but you can say that about some of the people within your own family, for that matter. However, the important thing here is to respect everyone no matter what your differences may be. After all, nobody's perfect. That being said, me and my DH (both bred and born Pittsburghers) are really looking forward to relocating to the South.
Stacey says:
Janna, I went to St Augustine last year as part of my "discovery" trips. Loved it and think that's where I'll move to. In NYC now. I also want to check out Ponte Vedra Beach. Would love to hear about your impressions especially about Amelia Island
eva meller says:
Hi, Stacey
heading to Fla this Monday to visit friends who moved to Ponte Vedra and love it there.
(I am a former New Yorker, now living in Morristown, Nj..about an hour NW of NYC.
which community in St Augustine did you visit?
W hat in particular did you like about it?
what others places have you visited that" spoke" to you?
Thanks Eva
Carold says:
Please post your thougts after you visit Ponte Vedra as it is a place we are considering. The endless CCD fees are something to consider.
Stacey says:
Hey Eva:
I didn't look at any particular community. I stayed in a condo not on the beach. It was right near the Fountain of Youth. I loved the city. Will have to go back to check out different communities. I know that I do NOT want a 55 community. I prefer a mix of people. I stayed on Siesta Key which I loved But there's no way I can afford anything there. Also Sarasota is a larger city than I would like. I became friends with a lady who lives on the beach on Anastasia Island in St Augustine and will visit her
Jackie says:
I grew up outside of Philadelphia. I moved to Florida Keys in 1978 for 6 years. I was a little taken aback by law enforcement there, very open with brandishing guns compared to PA. Otherwise it was fine, few Yankee comments, but I know what I am. Lived in West Palm Beach and Fort Pierce until 1996. Had no problems. Returned to PA, travelled the south for work. Loved going there on business as everyone was nice. Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Texas. However, in traveling personally I am finding not so friendly reception. Vacationed in SC, got so tired of the sweet southern accent covering the nasty comment. Just in the course of shopping and asking questions. Even at times unsolicited because we were there my my "caw fee" is pretty unmistakable as northern. The weird thing is that my parents moved here from London, England after they married. They have no clue about some American things, even after all this time. I'm on my own to figure it out. I mastered the local accent as a child to avoid the teasing I got for my English accent, which became source of bullying when I started school. I learned an intentionally rough accent and slang to survive. We ended up moving to West Palm Beach for my daughter to attend college. Now that she's finishing, we're looking to move. It's just too busy and developing too fast. We've been looking up along the west coast of Florida, encountering some real rudeness. Like an underlying anger left from the civil war. Which by the way my people weren't involved in. Wrong country. My husband is from incredibly rural area of Western PA, he's a northern redneck, so he will probably fare better than me. I'm lingering around the Tallahassee area, I have relatives in Atlanta and Pensacola. they may be first generation in both places, but we're here. I am comforted by going into town and having college kids who are always more open around. At least I can breathe. I tried living in rural PA where my husband is from, it was pretty bad. If they don't know your kin they don't talk to you. Same thing with the church as people have maintained about the south. So not just a southern thing. More rural. A throw back to when people did not move for generations. I was actually refused service today in a restaurant west of Tallahassee, Lake Talquin area. Refused is strong, they just ignored me long enough that I finally left. Like waited an everyone but me. I am moving to the area anyway. My work involves travel, and is not based in town, I have a home office. My work is also in healthcare, universally necessary. Being first generation I have never fit anywhere.
Donna Dachs says:
Wondering how an independent, single, senior citizen from Maine would fit in with folks from NC. Friends of mine, a married couple, just moved to High Point, NC. Interesting reviews from folks who relocated from New England. What if you're not a member of any particular church? What if you stick to what you believe in? Must you be filtered when you talk? Is it best to move into an active senior development w/ folks from different states? I love to volunteer with homeless animals, retired activists, artists, and friends who like to swim, hike, and learn from one another. Love taking senior college classes and going on trips with other senior citizens. I don't have any family. I'm a retired educator. Thanks. I've lived and worked in Maine since 1969. Would I love it? To live there or just to visit?
Donna Dachs
Julie says:
If all you're worried about are conveniences and weather, then PLEASE don't move to North Carolina! If us natives have an attitude these days, it's because so many people are moving here who don't give two squats about our home.
This is my culture and heritage. Every breath I take is North Carolina!! Every cell in my body has Carolina engraved on it--from the top of my head to the tips of my toes. And now, it is getting overrun by hoards of people who only want what they can take from it. They don't have a clue what it's like to love the dirt beneath their feet. Litter? Um. It all depends on where you're at. My Mama raised me better than that!
North Carolina is NOT "neutrally" Southern. It is A VERY STRONG SOUTHERN CULTURE. We have Confederate statues, too. People in the Research Triangle area tend to think they're the entire state, and many of them--especially the transplants--live in insulated little gentrified suburban bubbles.
Most of the state is RURAL, and we love it that way. We love our fishermen and our farmers. We love hillbillies. We love bluegrass. We love the piedmont bluesmen. We love guns. In many of our counties, you will see miles and miles of good, decent poor people of all shades of colors living in trailers and driving pickup trucks.
Guess what? We're the state that produces the most TOBACCO in America! GASP!!!!
By the way, there are poisonous snakes, lots of bugs, and gators. Yes...gators, bobcats, bears, etc. The Wildlife people and the bubble headed media will try to tell you there are none, because they don't want you to freak out.
And yes, that wonderful weather includes hot, sticky, sweating in the shower weather. It's not hot because of climate change. It's hot, sticky, and humid, because it's the S-O-U-T-H.
If you're shocked by confederate flags, you'd better stay in California or Containment Area for Relocated Yankees (Cary).
Now, with all that being said, if you're still determined to move here, please do us one big favor. Don't try to change it! Don't move next door to a fish house and whine about the smell! Don't organize elitist know-nothing groups to try to put fishermen out of business!! Don't demand to have "light rail" whooshing through small towns. Don't move to the country, invest a million bucks in renovating an old farmhouse, and then get mad because the ladies' auxiliary is organizing a night of gospel music and asks if you want to come.
This is OUR CULTURE AND OUR HOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm not living here, because I want some "dream retirement." I'm living here, because I love my home more than most transplants can ever understand. With the last breath in my body, I will work to preserve it. If you take two seconds to try to understand, then God bless your heart.
Louise says:
Wow, Julie, take a chill pill. I am sure there are plenty of people who move to NC and have good intentions of a happy retirement in a lower cost area. I can say some of the same up north where I live. I live in CT which is one of the most expensive states to live in. I happen to live in a more rural area where housing cheaper but about 1 1/2 hours from NYC where some of these transplants work. They have been known to have lived areas where a starter home is $1,000,000. They can come to my town and buy a mansion for $600,000 and up. Then they get into local politics and suggest swimming pools, which we do not have and other things that we do not have. But our taxes are lower here and municiple swimming pools would raise our taxes. So it isn't just a North Carolina thing. People are used to different ammenities from where they came and think every place has it or should have it. They also moved to these lower cost places to enjoy lower taxes and if new things are introduced their taxes will go up and no longer enjoy a lower cost area. Yes, it is annoying but if you moved to another state, maybe you wouldn't quite fit in either.
Stacey says:
Julie. It's funny but I have the same issue with people that move to NYC. I believe they are the people who give New Yorkers a bad name. My experience is that NYers are friendly, helpful and all around nice people. Yes we rush around like looney toons but that's just the energy of the City. People who move here think they have to be nasty and overly aggressive to fit in. It just ain't so and they perpetuate the myth. But eventually they get it and calm down. It's not easy to relocate to a different environment but if you're smart and love the new area, you relax into the culture and become part of it
Dick says:
Right on Julie. Although I am not a native, I hate the fact that people who move here to get away from the area they live in then try to change NC to be like the area they came from. It isn't going to happen. There are the liberal enclaves in the Triangle, Asheville and Charlotte areas but for the most part, we are strongly conservative. Don't come here with the idea of changing us.
Myquest55 says:
I grew up in northern Delaware and have moved around a lot over the years. It has been my experience that "southerners" are very friendly but don't want to be your friend. New Englanders, on the other hand, are cool and taciturn but once they get to know you, you are a friend for life.
That said, I found living in university town was the best southern experience - lots of different people coming and going all the time as well as university events to attend or get involved with. We are currently in SE Tennessee and not loving it. Housing is cheaper, taxes are almost nothing but you get what you pay for sometimes. When we moved here (for work), people were, and still are, pretty much proud of the fact that "education is NOT a priority in Tennessee." That set the tone and we see that evidence. Thus, along with the heat and humidity, we are making plans to retire back to New England where we are more comfortable.
So, go south if you want to but find a place where you have things YOU like to do - not JUST for cheaper housing or better climate. ...and don't just stick a pin in the map. I am surprised at the reactions some commenters have had. We have tried to gently ask questions and appear genuinely interested in the area and have never had hostility. One woman, in a New England library, was very candid with us about local services and the area and we appreciated her honesty. Once she realized we weren't moving there and expecting a handout or a lot of "senior services" she relaxed and was very helpful.
There are a few couples here, retired from the Northeast, who love it! They have gotten involved in local groups, local organizations, love the outdoors - hunting & fishing, and have made many friends (most of them also transplants) or their children/grandchildren are nearby. When you go to a new place, it is always prudent to try to assimilate or at least, get to know the area before making your final decision. It pays to do your homework. I have already begun online conversations with people in our target area. We visited last year and two couples met us, took us to lunch and toured us around. Very fun and now we already know people. We have a long list of things we want to do, groups to get involved with and classes to take. Good luck to all!
Diane says:
I have the same problem with New Yorkers moving to NJ and complaining about everything! The food, the bread, the water, the restaurants, the corruption. They are selling row houses in one of the boroughs for a million dollars, buying into one of the over 55 communities and generally be nasty and obnoxious. I'm a native and wish they would all go back to NY.
The people in Colorado felt this way when they saw an influx of Californians. So you see NC doesn't have a corner on this market of people moving to a different area.
Louise says:
All this talk about fitting into a new State reminds me of the tv show Green Acres? Anyone remember that show? The Douglas's moved from NYC as city folk to live on a broken down farm in the sticks in Hooterville. The Douglas's were looked upon as odd folk and the Douglas's thought they were among odd folk. Mrs. Douglas would prance around in her fancy gowns and mink stoles and Mr. Douglas would plow the fields in a suit. They had neighbors (the Ziffels) who had a pig (Arnold) that they considered to be their son. The Douglas's had a hired hand (Eb) who decided the Douglas's were his parents and called them Mom and Dad. They were at the mercy of an unscrupulous con man Mr. Haney who only had broken down things to sell to the desperate Mr. Douglas. For some reason their phone was installed on a telephone pole and had to climb it to answer it. Everyone in town could understand Arnold when he grunted (spoke) but not Mr. Douglas. Mrs. Douglas, because of her quirky nature, fits in, but poor Mr. Douglas who wants to fit in just seems an outsider. Yes, sometimes we are different but if we were all the same it would be a boring world.
Bubbajog says:
I don't believe any culture has changed as much as Southern California. That is just the way it is. I believe we are all old enough and smart enough to realize that the one CONSTANT is CHANGE!!!
SandyZ says:
We have met lovely, gracious, welcoming Southerners here in Beaufort SC! It is all about respect - be open to learning one another's regional cultures and backgrounds - and that goes both ways! In the end, we are more alike than different!
MaryNB says:
Julie, it is great that you find yourself in a place that you love and want to stay until your last breath. North Carolina is a beautiful state and I have vacationed there often. I just have to say that the world has changed and this is one country, with one flag, and though we may have different accents and traditions, we are all free to travel and live wherever we want to. I live in New England where there is a constant influx of people from all over the world. They bring with them their traditions and cultures and we all benefit from the diversity. They come to attend our universities and colleges, or to find a better life, or to be free of prejudice and hatred. For the most part, all are welcomed into our communities. America is a melting pot and North Carolina is part of that great tradition. I have had many family members and friends who have moved to North Carolina and they bring with them our customs, religion, knowledge and traditions. People coming to your state will change it and make it a better place. That is the transient world we live in. I pray that in time, the Confederate Flag is something only seen in a Museum and that when people see it in future generations, they cringe at all that it represented.
Roberta says:
Elaine,
For those Northern people that are seeking a more urban environment in a warmer climate...try the Atlanta suburbs.
As a former "Yankee".....I have lived in many different places throughout the world before coming to Atlanta 40 years ago.
Lots of different communities to choose from....real estate is generally a better deal here than in the North......weather is great.....but it is hot in the summer.....area is very pretty ( Atlanta is the city in the forest)......all benefits of a big city..but will warn you: the traffic is brutal and the crime rate is quite bad as well...still in all this may be a great choice for someone wanting better weather in a more urban setting. Atlanta is very diverse. Lots of Northern transplants and people from all over the world, really.
Stacey says:
Hey Roberta, I love GA. Will be morning to Athens in a few years. Can't wait
Doc Stickel says:
Wow! Julie, thanks for the primer on just how to act in my new(4 months) NC home. Not sure what my reception will be since I'm originally from NJ. I did "acclimate" myself to southern living with a 5 year stay in SW Virginia. There is another side of the coin, however. When we retired to SW Virginia, I was able to devote 4 days a week to the local community through volunteer driving for the VA Hospital, and being employed by rural transit. This involved transporting handicapped, and the elderly. When we moved, I also paid taxes, bought furniture, shopped in local stores. In general, contributing to the local economy. I am pursuing the SAME interests in your state now that I'm here. I will admit to ..At times...Grousing about the absence of good pizza, Taylor pork roll, and the like. In turn, I've received some ribbing for my accent. That's the way life works. I've loved the new perspective that southern culture has afforded me, and I'd like to think I've had a similar influence on m new neighbors. None of this would have happened if I'd not changed locations. Another issue: my limited knowledge oh history informs me that NONE of us here today are native to our surroundings. Go back in time(not terribly long ago) and you would have discovered quite another culture.
Karl says:
Well, I'd like to weigh-in here. I hope that NO one will find what I say to be offensive.
I've lived in Kentucky, a border state, hardly the Deep South, and found that just the minimum of gracious, good manners, counts for MUCH.
Mention the Carolinas and I think it becomes ESSENTIAL.
I had a dear old friend, never given to unkind remarks of any kind who came out with a surprising observation: he referred to Yankees and Damn Yankees. Taken slightly aback, I asked what qualified one as a Damn Yankee. My friend replied immediately, saying "Oh, its easy to identify them. They're the ones that always wear their insufferable baseball caps in the Club."
Now, this might strike some as snotty, but I assure you that this remark came from the must kind and generous person one could possibly imagine.
At the end of the day, basic good manners make the difference, ESPECIALLY in the Deep South.
Just my opinion and not intended to offend.
Louise says:
Doc Stickel, never ate Taylor Pork Roll but you can buy it on line! http://jerseyporkroll.com/cats/taylor-ham-pork-roll/?gclid=CNXdy6vVxNICFdFMDQodEZ0Kpw
Learn to make you own pizza or what I do is buy a premade fresh Costco pizza and doctor it up with stuff I like and extra cheese. Add Italian spices, sausage, meatballs! The choices are endless!
I buy 45 lbs of HOT sausage one time a year from a place in Rhode Island. When I get it I cut it into the lengths I want then vac pack it then freeze it. I have a years worth and right now am waiting for my yearly shipment!
Doc you are right about going back in time. My Grandpa, who lived in Kentucky his whole life, lived to be 110 years old. Can you imagine how the world changed for him? Cars, airplanes, WWI, WWII, Korean War, Vietnam War, TV's, fashions, computers! He was facinated by the Watergate hearings and watched it on a small black and white tv with rabbit ears. He plowed his fields by hand with mules, not even a tractor until his sons grew up and they bought tractors. They had an outhouse and didn't have inside plumbing till I was a teenager. He was born in 1897 and passed in 2007.
Doc says:
Louise, I'M m coming over to your house for pizza! And, I'll bring the pork roll. If you've never had a Taylor ham and eggs sandwich for breakfast, you're in for a treat. When I was speaking of going back in time, I was referring to the first "known" inhabitants, the Indians indigenous to the state. Although, motoring around Brevard, I stopped at a Civil War historical marker. It described a murder due to extreme differences of opinion about whether you supported the North, or the South. "Civil" War, it wasn't. Karl probably summed it up best: Good manners, and the Golden Rule, certainly go a long way!
Bruce says:
I was born and raised in Wisconsin but transferred to Knoxville, Tn. and lived their for 15 years. Two daughter moved with us and we had our one southern bell born in Knoxville. Loved through the mountains to North Carolina what a great state it has both mountains and coast line. I will say I never met more delightful people in my whole life as in the south. Yes, they ask you to go to church but that ok. Lots of stereotypes about the south education for one. When I got transferred to Minnesota (where I presently live) my children where tested ahead of the classes, didn't like the education they were receiving in Minnesota public education so I put them in a private school. So much for taxes equates to good education, good teachers and involved parents do. I cannot wait to leave Minnesota for a much less regulated set of rules and taxes. We are entertaining moving back to maybe Tellico Village or South Carolina. I do miss good grits, peach cobbler and great BBQ. I'm glad our daughter experienced a different culture growing up. One daughter did go to UT go VOLS, still a fan. After a few short years the Yankee thing disappeared and most didn't know our Northern background. Just have to be open, to new experiences. Still have great friends and communicate.
LS says:
Yes, as Dylan wrote "The times they are a changin" and I've seen a lot of change in Texas since we moved here 19 years ago for work-related reasons. We are in the DFW area and although I wouldn't consider this area the "deep South" like Mississippi or Alabama, it does have its own peculiarities. When we arrived in 1998, many were still doing the cowboy thing with the hats, boots, big belt buckles and pickup trucks. Boy do they love their pickup trucks in Texas. However, although the trucks remain very popular here, the rest of the cowboy attire not so much. This area is experiencing a great influx of people from other areas do to the favorable job market. Around 100 people a day are moving to the DFW area. Farms and ranches are being gobbled up to build apartments and subdivisions. Like Julie, the native Texans are concerned that they are seeing their way of life disappear. A little while ago there was an article in the Dallas newspaper about how residents in a county north of Dallas didn't want to see the "Californiazation" of their community. Texas government has been actively recruiting and providing incentives to companies in California to move their operations to Texas and many have. These companies move many of their employees with them and, thus, they bring a population used to a different culture than what is traditionally Texan.
The culture wars have certainly become more prevalent during our time in Texas. The state legislature is currently considering a bathroom bill similar to the one passed in North Carolina. While I believe this is a distraction meant to fire up the conservative base, it does appear to have enough support, at least in the legislature, to pass. Meanwhile, more critical issues like adequate funding for our schools, the lowest percentage of people with health insurance in the nation and deteriorating roads and bridges are pushed to the back burner. Legislators have figured out that it is much easier to pass some culture-related piece of legislation that doesn't cost any money than to address the more pressing needs of the state that would require spending tax dollars. To me, this is the greatest issue in the South for someone from another area of the country.
Bruce says:
Two parties in a conversation must share a common interest with a shared vocabulary or there will be no communication – no meaning. Your sense of home extends beyond the walls and yard to your neighborhood, community and region. When you spend time exploring, enjoying and understanding “the place” of your neighborhood you will find its meaning. I encourage you to look closely at all of the neighborhood aspects not just the house. When you do, you will secure the foundation for a wonderful home.
Dick says:
Mary, what is your definition of changing for the better?
Jim C says:
Strictly from a practical perspective the south has two overriding reasons to relocate there - weather and cost of living.
.
BeckyN says:
From my experience moving around frequently and living in many states during my husband's military career, it boils down to "it is what YOU make it."
Jasmine says:
I visited Southport, NC after reading and watching too many Nicholas Sparks novels and movies. Beautiful small town on water but drove by a scary looking nuclear plant in Southport, NC and decided not to retire there! Wilmington, NC was nice though with beautiful beaches. Looking forward to leaving CT for warmer weather down South.
Michele Simmons says:
Great article, great comments. Only wish something was written about the Pacific Northwest region too. Why is it assumed people only want to retire to the southern part of the USA? My husband and I lived our entire lives in the suburbs of Los Angeles. We vacationed many places around the country but about 18 months ago we retired to a small Oregon community south west of Portland. Big mistake. Medical facilities, (good ones!) and decent shopping are a minimum of an hour away. We left a very vibrant Catholic Church in So California. Not to be found up here where we'd hoped to make new friends. Also, as others have found in other parts of the country, zoning laws here are either non existent or they are called, "multiple use neighborhoods" which means run down blocks of homes, apartments, and mobile homes built in the middle of a few blocks of homes that are kept tidy. We looked for a 55+ community but again, they are plopped into the middle of red neck neighborhoods with nothing to separate them. We've involved ourselves in civic volunteer work hoping to plug in and find friends. It never happened. People are warm but not interested in including you. The one friend we've made here is another recent transplant from So Calif. The cultural differences are very evident. If you love guns, hunting, junk cars, and letting your yard look like an empty field, you'll feel right at home here. If you only want to wear sweat pants, sweat shirts and jeans to church, to restaurants and shopping, you'll feel right at home in small town Oregon. My life long dream was to live in Oregon because of it's natural beauty. That it has in abundance. I greatly underestimated how important these other things are. We are more inclined to feel this is a great place to vacation, but not the best place for us to retire. We are looking into relocating to San Diego. The financial loss will be worth it.
Bob Slang says:
I retired from the NYC area 10 years ago and researched just about every retirement community on the east coast. I bought on Seabrook Island, just outside of Charleston SC, Conde Nasts greatest city in the US five years running. I'd be happy to talk about my experiences with any interested parties. rslang1@gmail.com
Sharon P says:
Wow, this is an amazing read. Informative and I find commonality with so many comments, having moved to Conway, S.C. in October from Syracuse, N.Y. Actually we are 14 miles from downtown Conway and closer to Myrtle Beach. My impressions;
At first I was bowled over at how polite everyone is. The folks at the DMV were a hoot how they worded everything before the collected your money. While we still had NYS plates, people stopped us, told us where they were from and how happy they are here. Folks noticed the area code of our cell phone and told us where they were from originally.
The Grand Strand area (Myrtle Beach) is comprised mostly of transplants. We moved into a brand new development in the country where 95% of us are from out of state. Good fit as we all need to make New friends.
Moving from the city in the U.S. with the most snow, I am in heaven. So this is winter in the south? I love the countryside, beautiful old trees, flowers most of the year. Our gas utility bill for heat, hot water and stove was 1/10 of what our total utility bill was February 2015.
I have found dentists, a Chiropractor, a GP and are happy with them. I like 3 of them better than my prior health care providers and their fees
are lower.
My concerns or difficulty with adjustment;
There is no Wegmams, the best rated grocery store in the U.S..
I used to see someone I knew no matter where I went and now my circle of people I know is next to nothing.
Myrtle Beach is a beach community and not a cultural area. There is art...to buy. Conway has a regional theater.
The newspaper and TV do not cover community advocacy, activism, organizations, etc., so it leaves an empty spot compared to the north.
Things seem to happen in Charleston, two hours away, which is a big change from 10 minutes in upstate N.Y. Moving from one city where the majority belong to one political party, to a city where the other party is the majority illustrates different value systems is a little shock. It is best to not talk politics.
The Myrtle Beach and Conway traffic is dreadful. We are going north for the summer to escape tourist season and the heat. Most of the businesses are spread out along the beach area and to Conway, rather than in a urban circular center. Expect to drive more.
I would not recommend moving from a northern urban area to a rural area.
I still love it here and it will only get better.
MaryNB says:
Dick, when I say that things in the the south will change for the better as more people relocate there,I mean more diverse and more accepting of diversity. Put another way, I mean that with an influx of people from all over the country and the world will make the the south less provincial in thought.
Dick says:
I agree that the South will change but I disagree that the change will be for the better.
Bubbajog says:
Having lived most of my 67 years in the Los Angeles metro area; the change has not been for the better.
Diane says:
Quite frankly, Southern born and Southern bred, although years of 'diversity' as an Army officer's wife, I miss the 'old south' and am searching for the little pockets that are rare and still pure for our retirement. However my requirement of University medical support and not wanting to pay taxes on military and state pensions, the best I have found that fits our current need is Sevierville, TN.
Our last visit we found the shortcuts to avoid the tourist traffic and the 'strip' of continuous 'factory outlets' and restaurants that all all neon. There is a Sevierville that is not tourists but a nice little town that is excited about seniors retiring there and I have found helpful people in every genre. Not the Spanish moss of the coastal south I love so much, but the Smokey Mountains more than compensate - and with the elevated altitude it is not nearly as oppressively hot! Douglas Lake is nearby if that's what floats your boat (tongue in cheek) and It is close enough to Knoxville for theater, college sports, historical venues, etc., and with the 'First Family of Tennessee' marker for our home, I think this is the right match for us at this time in our lives - our forever home with the touch of the old south. I like to know that my neighbors think the way I do, vote the way I do, and own a gun!
Richard says:
How about Conway in SC.
Moderator Flo says:
Richard,
If you scroll up, there's a post from Sharon P. about Conway and the Myrtle Beach area.
Thanks!!
Carole says:
The Two Travelers and the Farmer
North America
A traveler came upon an old farmer hoeing in his field beside the road. Eager to rest his feet, the wanderer hailed the countryman, who seemed happy enough to straighten his back and talk for a moment.
"What sort of people live in the next town?" asked the stranger.
"What were the people like where you've come from?" replied the farmer, answering the question with another question.
"They were a bad lot. Troublemakers all, and lazy too. The most selfish people in the world, and not a one of them to be trusted. I'm happy to be leaving the scoundrels."
"Is that so?" replied the old farmer. "Well, I'm afraid that you'll find the same sort in the next town.
Disappointed, the traveler trudged on his way, and the farmer returned to his work.
Some time later another stranger, coming from the same direction, hailed the farmer, and they stopped to talk. "What sort of people live in the next town?" he asked.
"What were the people like where you've come from?" replied the farmer once again.
"They were the best people in the world. Hard working, honest, and friendly. I'm sorry to be leaving them."
"Fear not," said the farmer. "You'll find the same sort in the next town."
Source: Personal recollection, Idaho, about 1950.
Louise says:
Plot
A rocket piloted by two astronauts heads out on a mission to Mars. One of them, Marcusson, is a positive thinker who believes that people are alike all over, even on the Red Planet. The other astronaut, Conrad, has a more cynical view of human interplanetary nature. The impact of landing on Mars is so severe that Marcusson is critically injured. Knowing that he is dying, Marcusson pleads with Conrad to open the door of their ship so he can at least see that for which he has given his life. Conrad refuses, still fearful of what may await outside, and Marcusson dies.
Now alone, Conrad hears a rhythmic sound reverberating upon the ship's hull. Expecting some unnameable evil, his apprehension turns to joy when he opens the hatch and sees Martians that indeed appear to be human, have mind-reading abilities and give the impression of being most amicable, especially the beautiful Teenya, who welcomes and reassures him. The hospitable locals lead their honored guest to his residence—an interior living space furnished precisely in the same manner as one on Earth would have been.
Conrad relaxes, but soon discovers that his room is windowless and the doors cannot be opened. One of the walls slides upward, and Conrad realizes that he has become a caged exhibit in a Martian alien zoo. Conrad picks up a sign that says "Earth Creature in his native habitat" and throws it on the floor. In the episode's closing lines, Conrad grips the bars and yells to the heavens "Marcusson! Marcusson, you were right! You were right. People are alike.... people are alike everywhere!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIZ04AGTjHc
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_Are_Alike_All_Over
Jean says:
Indeed Carole.....Indeed!!!
Heidi says:
This has been a very worthwhile read. My husband is from Hamburg, Germany; I am from the Midwest. We have lived in Germany, Connecticut, Chicago, Texas, Madison, New York City and Milwaukee, between the two of us. We have started looking at areas where we could spend time part of the year when we retire. We are both in our mid 50's with one child still in Madison, one in high school and a daughter working in Chicago.
We visited Austin, Texas a few summers ago- which we liked, but I know that I would not like the spread out areas and driving. I love taking the train and public transportation at times. This month, we are planning a trip to Charleston, Savannah, Bluffton and areas outside of Jacksonville, FL. Since we moved to Wisconsin from Connecticut, I have truly missed NYC and the New England states. I am very into recycling, the New York Times, walking our rescue dog, trying new foods, going to foreign films and cultural events. Sometimes I think that getting a place in Madison, WI and traveling to different areas in the winter might be the easiest. I do not want to be too far from our kids for the majority of the year, and would really like to form a new network. Reading some of the posts increases my angst level about relocating to a place where we may be viewed as too liberal and may have trouble making friends. My husband is a bibliophile and is very much into world history. We like to go out but are not into golf or heavy partying/socializing. Any recommendations? Thanks!
Dick says:
Right on Carole....
Louise says:
Heidi, I am not a relocation expert but was thinking of some of the things you mentioned. You like pubilc transportation, cultural things, your husbands love of books and history, foods and your dog. These are my thoughts. I would look for housing along a train line and what comes to mind for me is called the Harlem Line in NY. Here is a map: http://web.mta.info/mnr/html/mnrmap.htm The farther north on the train line you go, I assume the housing would be lower cost.
You could be located in a rural setting which would be good for your dog and offer a tranquil living situation. The train would be close by and you and your husband could get on it and go to Grand Central Station. From there you could take a subway anywhere. Your husband could go to Museums and book stores, you could enjoy every kind of food imaginable in NY, all kinds of cultural events. You could start out very early in the mornings and spend long days in the city, then take a relaxing train trip home. I have taken the train from Brewster, NY and it was a very relaxing trip to Grand Central. Plus, you can take a bus or cab from Grand Central Station to JFK or LGA and fly to Chicago to see your daughter. Just my 2 cents worth.
Doc says:
Great parable Carole, and a nice way to express a point of view. One other comment on living next to neighbors "just like me". While understanding the comfort of that situation, and thinking back....I have found that(speaking for myself, of course)I have learned, and gained much more from people who did not always parallel my point of view. Much to be discovered through an exchange of ideas in civil fashion. Now,...As to whether they possess a firearm or not: I have lived near folks where it is a "who cares"? And I've lived near folks where I would fear for my safety! All depends....
Clyde says:
Heidi, we live in retirement part-time in Palm Beach County, FL, and have liked it so much, we're moving here permanently later this year from Connecticut. The vast majority of people who have moved here (retirees and others) are from the NYC area. Consequently, much of what those transplants from New York like is found here. Lots of culture, discussion groups (often leaning towards liberal ideas), great library system, huge numbers and types of restaurants, etc. There is a large range of prices and types of housing. Living cost are usually very reasonable. You can get to many places nonstop from the nearby Fort Lauderdale or West Palm Beach airports, including lots of international destinations from Fort Lauderdale. Miami, around an hour South on the interstate or turnpike, offers a myriad more things to do and see. On top of that, the weather is usually pleasant, especially from November through March. The other months are often hot (87-95 degrees for highs), but are tempered by frequent breezes from the ocean. And, of course, air conditioning is everywhere. I find humidity to be no worse than most places in the south, and I've lived in Texas, Louisiana, Alabama and central Florida (which is hotter than coastal areas). And the tree, flower and plant life is beautiful year round. Several nature preserves (Loxahachee and others) are easily available for viewing much local flora and fauna. These are my observations; others may have different thoughts. By the way, I grew up and spent my first thirty years in a small farming community in Kansas, so I've seen a lot of different ways of living. Oh, I forgot to mention the great beaches along the Atlantic, usually within five to thirty minutes from most places in Palm Beach County. (Final note: there is the possibility of hurricanes, mostly from July through October. It's always important to keep an eye on weather factors wherever you live. Being fully prepared is the best way to handle weather issues.)
Carole says:
Doc,
I remember reading that as a college student and thinking true enough! Moved quite a bit as a child and was always excited to do so mainly because I had a mom who told us how great the new place was and how interesting the different cultures would be!
Yes civility is important and it can be boring being around those with the same views. I like diversity in these things and being exposed to a different approach helps to refresh my thoughts and update them at times.
Diane says:
Clyde -
You mention flora and fauna in Florida, but not alligators that can be found in almost all bodies of water (both of my daughters live on ponds and both have their resident gator), palmetto bugs as big as a baseball, snakes that are not indigenous (until a few years ago) like the python and anaconda (pets that were let loose in S. Florida and made their way to other areas as well, lizards the size of combat boots and larger! My husband graduated from Florida Southern and his parents lived in Boynton Beach, so we know by which we speak.
Although both of our daughters live in Florida we quickly ruled it out because of the critters. We also like a change of season and my fair complexion, which living on the coast as a Navy officer's daughter has taken it's toll, would make a hermit out of me, venturing out only after dark (vampire?). No, you can keep the flora and fauna and the critters and sun, the heat and traffic, the snowbirds and tourists, I will take the less humid mountains of my beloved south.
There is no place prettier than the Smokies which do look like smoke from the distance, thus the name, or the Blue Ridge in the spring where I went to college. Perhaps I can actually grow a gardenia since I manage to kill one every year here in Central Virginia! Just praying we will sell our home and acreage quickly and settle down in Tennessee, where we know no one!
But we will! My husband will become active with the veteran's groups and I will join a historical society, or two, but no more Woman's Club or Garden Club - I became over saturated with those where we are now, and we will look for a church that will satisfy both of us, which is not going to be easy, but there will be one. We will look forward to a sense of community and neighborhood since I have done my homework, checked demographics, rented in the area three times, and learned where the regular folks live with no tourist rentals in the neighborhood. I have already contacted the Chamber of Commerce and City Hall and was sent a very informative 'welcome' packet.
I have also concluded that an active 55+ community is not for us! My brother and his wife are already, after just 3 months, overwhelmed in their new 55+ community in Summerville, SC and are wondering if they made a mistake. Would not mind finding another couple our age to play bridge, or other 'thinking' card games, but I don't want to be considered 'unfriendly' if I don't join half a dozen classes or groups, so we are looking for a friendly neighborhood, even an HOA is OK, but all those activities exhaust me just reading the lists! My brother has learned not to answer the phone and they try to slip away before they can be grabbed to do something else - they are just enjoying exploring the environs and visiting, occasionally, nearby grandchildren.
Others may enjoy the very busy social life, but we both have learned to appreciate our golden years and the opportunity to do nothing!
Diane says:
Oh, I forgot to add that both of my daughters, one in Boca Raton and the other in Bradenton (Tampa area), have had their home owners insurance cancelled! And they are the 3rd generation to use USAA! And my brother in Summerville is going through an evaluation process for his homeowners. So check and make sure your company will cover coastal areas. Oh and sinkholes in the center of the state!
I know I mentioned the traffic but my father-in-law bought a bicycle since he could get places quicker by that means of transportation than by auto within the local area. Yes, the beaches are great! I used to love them, but no more - and I remember how my mother-in-law dried up like a prune just from running errands and hanging clothes in the sun - she never went to the beach! My father-in-law did ride his bike to the beach since the salt water was suggested as a treatment for his psoriasis, but he paid late in life with multiple skin cancers that finally took his life. They both were of Italian heritage and had great skin for the sun, but daily exposure was even too much for them. They also moved down from NJ and loved Florida!
There are ways to live in Florida and be positively happy - particularly those who golf (we do not - and again the sun is a problem) or enjoy water sports, but we are bit too old and brittle to take on the surf and sun, but we do like to fish and we can do that almost anywhere!
I have to agree with those who suggest renting in the area for an extended stay before you buy! America is as diverse as we are and unless family is the reason for relocating, everyone can find a forever home where they will be happy. Just don't go into a community thinking that you can change it, any more than you can change us Johnny Rebs! We are proud of our heritage and don't want to continuously hear, 'but you lost!' We think we won by just being a Southerner! At least I do! I may have had 7 CSA direct ancestors but I have many, many more who were Patriots and fought for a free America! The cities are becoming more diverse as are university towns, and they are by far a better fit for someone who wants a forum for their Yankee ways and politics. There seem to be enough protests for any liberal to feel at home.
We are what we are and not many of us want to change - not at my age anyway!
Jennifer says:
Diane:
I have many of the same feelings that you do. I hate snakes and bugs and excessive humidity. I love the mountains and the Smokies are lovely. Where in Tennessee have you chosen to live? The state has much to offer. How does it rate as far as taxes?
I enjoyed reading your posts. A positive attitude makes a world of difference no matter where you choose to live.
ella says:
Diane,
Diane,
I am a Yankee, born and bred, and i love your March 11th post. I couldn't agree more (although i don't own a gun, and don't ever plan to! :) ) I'd like to discuss with you your choice of Sevierville, as i, too, am looking for a quieter life. For me, more closely connected to nature. I've been wondering if the Walland or Wear's Valley would be a better fit for me than Jonesborough, TN (very close to the large and busy Johnson City). I did think Sevierville would be too close to Gatlinburg and super tourism.
Would you be willing to contact me at : eleasharose@gmail.com
Then i could get really specific without boring everyone. If not, i'll just contact you on this site.
Thanks so much!
ella
Myquest55 says:
Jennifer - Tennessee has no income tax but the sales tax is the highest in the country. Check out more info on www.city-data.com for any community you are interested in. Very helpful site. Remember, education is NOT a priority in Tennessee. Good luck.
Diane says:
Jennifer -
We have chosen Sevierville since the new Le Conte Hospital and medical center is a branch of the University of Tennessee. There are plenty of homes with views of the mountains and lots to build and we learned how to avoid the tourists while we were there last December.
In spite of what Myquest55 states, there is a college in Sevierville, and of course the University of Tennessee is less than an hour's drive.
There are so many opportunities for pleasure and water sports at nearby Lake Douglas, and we thought of looking there for a home but we decided it was a bit far out if someday we have to rely on public transportation (taxi, medical 'ambulance' van, etc.). We have chosen to search in areas around the medical center on both sides of the highway and along Pittman Hwy and the next few roads down from this road. We found numerous subdivisions with homes for sale and building in progress (this is what we would like since we could add wheelchair options just in case) with mountain views. Taking the back road, Gatlinburg and all the craft shops are minutes away without the tourist traffic since there is nothing else to see of interest beyond the shops. There is a new Publix Grocery Store in Pigeon Forge and a super Walmart and several Kroger stores.
Yes, sales tax is high but if we need anything expensive we will just go over to Georgia or SC to purchase although I found tremendous bargains on furniture at several 'bargain' stores, and this is because owners of cabins are always looking for sturdy furniture that will stand up to the tourist rentals. Which goes without saying there are a huge number of rentals in order to explore and get used to the community and the longer you stay the less they charge.
We found a website of 'owners' where we rented the last time we were there and there are real bargains on this site, plus you correspond directly with the owner(s). The cabin we first rented burned to the ground during the wildfire and the young couple who owned the cabin also owned two much larger (twice the size) cabins and offered us their luxury cabin right at the foot of Mt. Le Conte for the same price as the smaller cabin. We were able to have my brother and his wife up for several days and it was nice catching up in a cabin where they had their own floor! We won't go back until we sell our house in Virginia (they tax all pensions including military) since we know now that is the place for us, but we will still rent just to make sure.
Louise says:
Diane, I am always interested in hearing about TN and from what you said about the new hospital it sounded good! I looked up the hospital and found a lot of bad reviews! Take a look: https://www.google.com/search?noj=1&q=Le+Conte+Hospital&oq=Le+Conte+Hospital&gs_l=serp.12..0i10k1l3.27605.27605.0.29803.1.1.0.0.0.0.103.103.0j1.1.0....0...1c.2.64.serp..0.1.101.YdIhRHumkiM#lrd=0x885bf917146b432d:0x19c09b0fa170746a,1,
Moderator Flo says:
Tennessee Info
For those of you interested in Tennessee the link below should be helpful--
http://www.topretirements.com/blog/great-towns/retirement-in-the-mid-south-comparison-kentucky-tennessee-georgia-and-alabama.html/
Thanks
BeckyN. says:
Diane, would you mind sending me info on the cabin you rented? Sounds like an area I would like to visit. Becky.N@comcast.net.
Clyde says:
Although this website is not intended to be a forum for political philosophies, there is no question that prevailing attitudes of the community and neighbors are an important aspect of most people's retirement experience. So it can't just be an undiscussed elephant in the room. A reasonably good guide to political thinking in an area is to check the election results of the city or county you are considering. How that city or county voted in the last few presidential elections will tell you a lot about your prospective new neighbors and community. You may like it, or not, depending on your particular beliefs. It's just part of the due diligence that should be done when researching potential retirement locations. It might save you a lot of regret.
Bruce says:
Well their will be agreement and disagreement on almost every subject. However, Tennessee was a great place to live and raise my children being transferred their from Wisconsin. Yes it took a while to adjust, as will anywhere. A few things I mentioned before. Education yes you must watch the school district you live in some betters then others as is the case everywhere. When I transferred to Minnesota, my children that went to Knoxville's public school, were ahead in reading and math when placed in the St. Paul school system. It only took me a year to pull them out of public school and put them in private. My wife finished her degree from the University of Tennessee and she is a computer programmer for main frame computers. My oldest daughter also went to the University of Tennessee. They even wear shoes.
I found the sugary attitude to be good hard working nice people. At least people introduce themselves, wave and say hi. Yes they ask you to go to church, nothing wrong with that. Believe it or not everywhere I have lived I cannot tell you how people vote or if they own a gun unless they tell you.
We will be visiting Tellico Village this April right after Easter.
If you like the changes in season Tennessee has that, with winters only a few months long. Yes humid in the summer, but so is Minnesota and Wisconsin. The fall in the mountains is like nothing you have ever witnessed.
I believe you should check it out.
Diane says:
Louise -
I have read the reviews but, honestly, when someone has a good experience at a hospital, how likely are they to write a review? Not very! It's only those who need to 'vent' whose reviews turn up on the WWW!
Unfortunately I have a condition that requires university medical care since private physicians not only do not want to deal with 'it' but they don't have the expertise or equipment. Unfortunately most university medical colleges are in a city and that is the last place we want to live! We like the demographics in Sevierville and what I read about the hospital is that if they cannot handle a problem, they will transport to UT in Knoxville. I believe they have a courtesy van between hospitals but I have not been able to find the answer to that ? - and I think I need to go through the main hospital to find out. This is a requirement for us since I had to give up driving (cannot feel my feet due to spinal stenosis), and it is mandatory that we have at least a taxi service in case my husband cannot drive or needs to have a procedure where he needs a driver, and if he dies before I do, I need support. I know there is a medical van that will bill Medicare with a doctor's note, and I am well beyond being qualified!
This has been a very difficult decision and I have looked all over SC, GA and TN - I would include Alabama but my husband does not want to go that 'far'?
However, we do want to remain in the south as our daughters are in FL and our sons in VA - and we will be about halfway between my brother in NW GA and my husband's brother in Greenville, SC, but our search has been limited due to my medical condition and not wanting to live inner city - it has been a difficult search and until we sell the house and rent in an area, nothing is set in stone! I want to feel safe wherever we go and listening to sirens all night long is not high on my list of desirable sounds since we are back in the woods now and hear nothing but nature. I know we cannot duplicate this wherever we go since we need to be closer to people and civilization but it will be a huge change.
I honestly do not understand why the people from 'up north' or wherever want to change the place where they retire! If they don't like what they find, then leave and go live somewhere you feel comfortable! This is a big country and there is a place for everyone but the south is the Bible belt - we love our family - we love our military, whatever war - we love God and most of us are active in a church - we love our ancestors and are curious to learn more about them! We believe in observing a kind and peaceful Memorial Day, which does not honor all veterans (they have their holiday too), but honors our cherished deceased veterans. Save the fireworks until the 4th of July or Veteran's Day! We do not like protests or riots - we appreciate our police officers and respect the law - we honor the constitution and believe in it as written by our forefathers - it does NOT need to be changed!
The last place I would want to go is a place I dislike so much I want to change it! There is room for all and everyone should live somewhere they feel comfortable but why would they want to make it uncomfortable for those of us who have lived there all their lives! When I think back on the Atlanta of my teenage years and what it has become, I want to scream! It is no longer the city where we could walk from Rich's to Davison's and not feel afraid, or the city that can accept everyone - it is just another big city and could be picked up and put down in NJ and no one would know the difference! Atlanta was part of our heritage and it is gone, and now it seems, from what I am hearing, that everyone wants to change the rest of the south!
Yes, I treasure the stars and bars! The flag(s) that my great-grandfathers fought under - and they were not wealthy slave owners, but 'red neck' farmers who cherished their way of life and wanted to keep it that way. I am halfway between angry and sad from what i am hearing on this forum - if you don't like us, do not come to live here! We have no intention of changing to suit your political or other views and therein lies the problem! Florida is a GREAT place for you! But beware of small towns in mostly north and central Florida - you never know where you might see a rebel flag on the back of a pickup!
ella says:
MaryNB,
Have you even ever been to the South? I, too, have lived on both coasts, in Vermont, and several other places as well. Now i'm in NE Tennesse and i can't relate to even one thing you said. And JEB, you too.
I've found no hatred, no closed-mindedness. The people have been friendly and real. I have found no sugary sweet phoniness. When my husband and i walk through town (several times every week), we smile at and greet all the people we see and they do the same. Amazing! So far, this had been a very good experience for me.
So, i've got to say to all reading this post - If you're interested in Tennesse, check it out for yourselves.
Caps says:
Ditto's Ella, Bruce and Diane.
We also find the people here genuine and caring. I have to be careful about being too abrupt, as I wonder if they may think that I am rude.
We spent every vacation searching for a retirement home in East TN since 2009. We have rented here the last 3 winter's, and now we're building the home in which we plan to live out our remaining years.
Caps says:
Diane, I heard about a helicopter air lift subscription out here in East TN. I believe you "subscribe " for $69. Per year. Once you're a subscriber, they will air lift you for medical emergencies. I'm sorry I don't have any more information at this time, but we plan to subscribe, once we permanently move here.
We LOVE it here, and feel eminently blessed to have discovered our dream.
John Cowden says:
This is fascinating. I've been studying the map and planning a reconnaissance trip to the wide spots in the road--provided there is good golf nearby--from Greenville to Asheville to Knoxville. Based on a year or two of casual investigation, we're definitely leaning to the area of South Carolina from Greenville, north to the NC state line, i.e. Travelers Rest, Cliffs, other. Only recently did we give thought to Eastern Tennessee--enough elevation for cooler summers, better tax environment, beautiful country, and people who seem follow the Golden Rule. Now starting to look at Sieverville, Maryville, Walland, all the way to downtown condos in Knoxville. I think we need a comfortable environment--community, town, neighborhood--that isn't smothering, with natural diversions, the usual preferred accesses (arts, food, medical), and good golf nearby.
Btw, I'm a 64 year old California/Oregon lawyer living with my wonderful 63 year old Southen wife (Natchez, Buckhead). We won't afford a West Coast (Santa Cruz) retirement, but think the four season highland of the Western Carolinas may suit us perfectly. Plus, a daughter in Greenville (no grands) is sort of blowing us within 2-3 hours of there.
It's open to the floor. What are we perhaps overlooking, and what else would you care to share with us.
Thank you all.
John
I'd be delighted
Bubbajog says:
Travel and Leisure magazine just listed the 20 friendliest cities in the world for 2016. Three American cities made the list, all in the South: Charleston, SC. Savannah, GA. Nashville, TN.
Debra says:
Diane's views do not represent all Southerners.
MaryNB says:
Ella, I was responding to the posts here from Southerners. I have been to the south many times as a vacationer. I was in tourist areas, so did not encounter the anger and hatred that was posted here. I would never want to live near people who felt that way.
Clyde says:
One commenter here said she had found "no hatred, no closed-mindedness" in NE Tennessee. That she and her husband walk through town several times a week and smile and greet all the local people they meet and those people do the same. That the people have been friendly and real. But what if you were walking through town hand-in-hand with your husband and he were black and you were white? Or, as you lovingly held hands, you were a man and your husband was also a man? Would everyone then smile and greet you in a friendly manner? Bi-racial and same-sex marriages are perfectly legal and constitutional in every town and county in the United States. Bi-racial and same-sex couples also seek nice, friendly places to retire. One person's idea of a town's friendliness to newcomer retirees may not be the same as someone else's. The truth is that we live in a very diverse country.
Mikw says:
John, as a current Fremont, CA resident I understand that moving out
Is almost a must for retirees... Have you checked out the Crossville/Fairfield Glade
Area in TN? Lots of golfing there.
Mike
Barbara says:
Also John, check out Tennessee National. Very new and very beautiful. And getting into the major shopping areas of Knoxville isn't bad at all. Probably 20-25 minutes. I visited there last September and really liked it. Drove all through Fairfield Glade too, and it was pretty but out in the middle of nowhere. Keep searching though, you'll find lots to see.
ella says:
Hi Cyde,
I'm glad you brought up the point of diversity in NE Tennessee. I am currently living in Jonesborough which is in Washington County. One county south is Greene county, which is more conservative than the county i live in. My good friends live there (the reason i moved to this area). The wife is white, the husband is black. If i were to say they are the most beloved people in the area with the most friends and the most active social life, i wouldn't be exaggerating. Currently, they're in Florida. Friends rented a house there for the month of March and invited them to visit for a week. That's my friends' life!
Additionally, three of their children found their spouses here. They are all such an integrated and loved part of the community. Their daughters perform in concerts, one daughter plays piano accompaniment for the local ballet and college theater's performances. I could go on and on. I am not sure if i'll be staying here for other reasons; but trust me, it's not the people.
Now, to be fair and not misrepresent the situation, this area has a huge number of transplants. At least half the people, if not more in Jonesborough, are not from this area.
ella says:
MaryNB,
Thanks for your post. I think it's important that we all report what we've experienced, not what others have stated. You say you've never experienced the anger and hatred others have reported. That's great, and that's your experience!
Please don't get me wrong. I'm not saying all areas in the South are wonderful, just as i wouldn't say that about the North, Mid-West, West, etc. We all need to find an area we're comfortable in.
I think RON's post is excellent! I am so tired of reading all the politically extreme postings on Facebook. Let's get together, people! A house divided cannot stand!
ella says:
Caps,
Thanks for reminding me about the helicopter air lift subscription. A couple told me about it while we were enjoying a sample cup of coffee at Fresh Market.
ella says:
Clyde,
I just read your post again, and you are entirely right. We DO live in a very diverse country. And, i for one, am grateful for that! What one person is comfortable with makes another very uncomfortable. I don't think any of us want to have every place the same, then we'd have only one choice. So, yes, we must do our homework and rule out those places that would make us uncomfortable.
Alex Fay says:
'Can a yankee find retirement happiness in the south'. That is the lead in to this thread. Why doesn't it ask about a yankee finding happiness in the SW, or West? Why doesn't it ask about a southerner finding retirement happiness?
This topic, as it is framed, is intended to generate hostility. Then there are a few 'but nasty' posters on here that repeatedly drag people back after they have moved on to intelligent, non political, non religious discussion about retirement topics areas.
The moderators make an opening comment explaining this is part 2 of the same discussion and 'obviously striking a nerve'.... and then it continues.
If all you want is people bickering about religion, social issues, and politics, this blog should have a different title. Just my view.
Editor's Comment: You make some excellent points Alex. Please, please everyone, lets keep religion, politics, and opinions about other peoples' motives out of this. If you bring them up, we will edit them out. Talk about your personal experiences and not about your preconceptions about how other people feel or act. Lets try to be positive and open to others' views.
Roberta says:
Bill S......Wow going from South to North.
Well, I am from the Boston area. I love New England in the summer and Fall. I think another New England winter would kill me...so I stay away in the winter time. I think , if I could afford it...I would love to spend my summers in New England each year. I am a North Shore girl...so I love the North Shore from Lynn Beach northward. Swampscott, Nahant, Marblehead, Manchester by the Sea, Rockport...all wonderful places to visit and live if you can afford it. If you get to Maine....Oqunquit is not to be missed....gorgeous. Real estate in all these places is very
high.
I have lived in the South for almost forty years. I find people friendlier here. Even as a native New Englander......seems that you need to be involved with New Englanders somehow...like through work, church, or other activities before they speak to you. New Englanders are much less likely to say hello or good morning to someone they do not know. Once you get to know them...they are like everyone else. I will say.....coming from the South....you might find them a bit standoffish at first.
Again, retirement is what you make it. If you can spend summers and fall in New England and sneak back to the south for those long and cold New England winters...then you have the life I have always dreamed of.
Good luck to you in your retirement!
GARY says:
WELL MOVING BACK AN FORTH FROM BOSTON TO , NC , SOUNDS OK , BUT WE ARE RETIRED NOW AN MOVE FROM NC, FOR LAST MOVE NUMBER 22 MOVES ALL OVER THE WORLD FOR THE ARMY AND NOW I CLOSE TO ONLY GRAND KIDS I WILL EVER HAVE SO HERE IN BOSTON WE STAY SEE ALL THE SITES AND DRIVE KIDS TO AND FROM PIANO, BALLET. SWIMING . etc. AS NEEDED !!
Kathy says:
Removing any talk of politics or religion from these posts kind of defeats the purpose of the discussion. For me the differences in politics between MI and SC have made my transition a lot more difficult. I knew that SC was much more conservative than MI before I moved here but it has been much harder than I expected. I think it is important to acknowledge the differences without being hateful to the other point of view. Some of the differences in governing have a big impact on your dairy life. We have much lower taxes in SC but we have really awful roads because the state assembly is too afraid to raise the gas tax. We have the 2nd lowest gas tax in the country and are at or near the bottom in road quality. We pay a minimal amount of taxes towards fire protection and as a result the fire station for our community has not been built yet. We live in a 55+ community that is part of a 10,000 home master planned neighborhood. Once the fire station is finally built it will only be manned 8-5, M-F. These are just a couple examples that are indicative of the political difference. I think they are important to discuss.
Clyde says:
There's a difference between discussing how the general political and attitudinal environment of an area may affect our retirements, and simply arguing politics. In my mind it is important to make sure I choose an area where I will, in the main, fit in during retirement. So I think some discussion of this issue is warranted. I trust John and Flo, and any others on the Topretirements team, to effectively monitor comments so as to deal with any that are purely a statement of political position. This is not censorship, but simply keeping the comments here primarily on the topic of finding a comfortable, appropriate place for each of us to find satisfaction in retirement. May we all be able to do that!
Admin says:
Thanks everyone for the many, many comments (370). We have received enough feedback from people upset about this topic that we have decided to close out Comments from this point. For everyone who wants to read what has been said, most of which have been enlightening, there is plenty to choose from!
To close if off, here is what we wrote to one of the people who thought we shouldn't have started this topic or should have closed it off earlier:
----
We ran a risk with the "Can a Yankee live in the South" articles but on the whole I am glad we did. So many people from the north have trepidations about living in the South (and so many Southerners are concerned about a Yankee immigration) that to leave the elephant in the room undiscussed seems like a lost opportunity. Over the years we deleted a lot of nasty comments and probably let some stand that we shouldnt have, in the spirit of trying to be a light-handed censor. Meanwhile most of the comments were enlightening and heartfelt.
At this point with 370 comments we can say a couple of things. One, people are intensely interested in the subject. Two, many interesting and illuminating points have been made. And 3, it is hard to imagine that there is anything new to be said. I am sure there is, but it runs the risk that it would provoke 100 more comments that have been made!
So I like part of your recommendation. We will keep it up because people can learn something from it. But we have today closed off new comments.